When the Gpu's prices will go down ?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Is funny to see how the apologetic reasons go around and around from R&D, BOM, logistics and so on. Is like seeing the lambs argue to why they should be willingly sacrifice for the grater good of the wolf or people arguing for lower wages, higher bills, more working hours, less holidays and so on. Unbelievable.

MLID released another video today with Daniel Nenni who founded SemiWiki.com:

Nvidia 3nm Delay, RX 7600 Costs, AMD’s TSMC Edge, Intel Earnings | Daniel Nenni | Broken Silicon 203

SemiWiki Founder Daniel Nenni joins to discuss GPU, CPU, and Semiconductor markets.[SPON: Get 10% off Tasty Vite Ramen with code BROKENSILICON: https://bit.l...

youtu.be

Basically he said all the estimates of BOM,R and D costs,etc are overestimates on the internet.

 

[Calin Banc]

MLID released another video today with Daniel Nenni who founded SemiWiki.com:

Nvidia 3nm Delay, RX 7600 Costs, AMD’s TSMC Edge, Intel Earnings | Daniel Nenni | Broken Silicon 203

SemiWiki Founder Daniel Nenni joins to discuss GPU, CPU, and Semiconductor markets.[SPON: Get 10% off Tasty Vite Ramen with code BROKENSILICON: https://bit.l...

youtu.be

Basically he said all the estimates of BOM,R and D costs,etc are overestimates on the internet.

Of course they are. I mean you see relative numbers thrown around like "30% increase from TSMC!". Yeah, so something that was $20 is now $26. Definitely worth the 3x increase in price!

 

[gpuerrilla]

Basically he said all the estimates of BOM,R and D costs,etc are overestimates on the internet.

You dont need any special qualifications to work this out either. I mean buying in bulk, discount. Sign agreement, also discounts. Special rebate sauce, tax write offs etc. these figures are always over egged. The true prices moving about would probably shock a few people.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Of course they are. I mean you see relative numbers thrown around like "30% increase from TSMC!". Yeah, so something that was $20 is now $26. Definitely worth the 3x increase in price!

You dont need any special qualifications to work this out either. I mean buying in bulk, discount. Sign agreement, also discounts. Special rebate sauce, tax write offs etc. these figures are always over egged. The true prices moving about would probably shock a few people.

Some of this nonsense is probably bandied about by marketing to prepare people for price rises. I still laugh at that "leaked" Nvidia slide about TSMC 28NM,and Nvidia pushing up tiers with Kepler V1. People on tech forums were just repeating the "leak" which no one to this day knows if it was true.

 

[Man-In-A-Teapot]

Some of this nonsense is probably bandied about by marketing to prepare people for price rises. I still laugh at that "leaked" Nvidia slide about TSMC 28NM,and Nvidia pushing up tiers with Kepler V1. People on tech forums were just repeating the "leak" which no one to this day knows if it was true.

Sometimes you do wonder how many leaks are A/B testing by marketeers. Two streamers get leaked different things, sit back and see what the reactions are before committing to what to actually do.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Sometimes you do wonder how many leaks are A/B testing by marketeers. Two streamers get leaked different things, sit back and see what the reactions are before committing to what to actually do.

It wouldn't surprise me at all!!

 

[azazl187]

I think the title of this thread should be changed. It's clear than now after several years that the prices will not slow up or "go down"

 

[Man-In-A-Teapot]

I think the title of this thread should be changed. It's clear than now after several years that the prices will not slow up or "go down"

Thread started in June 2021. Well, at least scalping isn't rife now.

 

[Hotwired]

Stock was evaporated either before a retailer could get it or 5s after a retailer got it.

That left comedy resale prices, signing up to notifications and scrambling to buy before the retailer sold out and OCUK doing weird stuff to try selling a few to forum members.

Today, this moment, you can open the shop and order... a £200 card.

Absolutely unthinkable several years ago.

 

[Calin Banc]

I think the title of this thread should be changed. It's clear than now after several years that the prices will not slow up or "go down"

Prices did go down for last gen. Curent gen has been prescalped by the producers themselves, is different.

Is also a good show for the present limits of capitalism, something as an example for future markets.

 

[Murphy]

It'd be interesting to see how much NV invest into the design of each die.

I suspect even Nvidia wouldn't know that due to the design of each die being an iterative process.

 

[0h_no_not_again]

I suspect even Nvidia wouldn't know that due to the design of each die being an iterative process.

No way. They'll have water tight accounting for each and every die/product they design. But so much of what they do is integrating existing IP, so how they account for the development of IP blocks really matters.

Anyway, the point is, they have really healthy margins during a significant downturn. They can lower prices significantly and still make good gross margin / profit.

 

[Murphy]

Well yea they have excessive margins, i never said otherwise. What i was trying to convey is that it's not as simple as it cost us X millions to R&D this product due to R&D that may have been done decades ago, or even not done by them at all, going into the product along with 'new' R&D they did for that specific product.

Essentially you can't just look at R&D spend in isolation for one product, R&D spend covers all products over the entire lifetime of a company and then some. Even then how do you calculate such a thing, if i use something that was R&D ten years ago and has been used in every product since is that R&D cost recovered in the first product that uses it or over the lifetime of all products, etc, etc.

e: It's why the whole R&D thing seems more like a red herring that's thrown out there to muddy the waters IMO, it's why IMO R&D should be considered an investment that may or may not pay dividends and not something that's paid for upfront by customers.

 

[oggiet]

Pound seems to be getting stronger against dollar and cards not selling well .....hopefully card prices will drop soonish.

 

[neeb]

I see the FE cards have come down In price all be it about £20

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Well yea they have excessive margins, i never said otherwise. What i was trying to convey is that it's not as simple as it cost us X millions to R&D this product due to R&D that may have been done decades ago, or even not done by them at all, going into the product along with 'new' R&D they did for that specific product.

Essentially you can't just look at R&D spend in isolation for one product, R&D spend covers all products over the entire lifetime of a company and then some. Even then how do you calculate such a thing, if i use something that was R&D ten years ago and has been used in every product since is that R&D cost recovered in the first product that uses it or over the lifetime of all products, etc, etc.

e: It's why the whole R&D thing seems more like a red herring that's thrown out there to muddy the waters IMO, it's why IMO R&D should be considered an investment that may or may not pay dividends and not something that's paid for upfront by customers.

In one of the newer MLID videos,the guy from SemiWiki said that internet estimates of R and D costs,and manufacturing costs are always higher than what he has actually seen himself.
Also who cares? I don't go into a Tesco wondering about how much their R and D costs!

 

[BUDFORCE]

I personally think graphics cards are still way too expensive.

Compared to mid 2021 at the height of the mining thing, sure we are in a whole different world, but GPU prices compared to other PC hardware is way over the odds.

I don't think other PC hardware, RAM, CPUs seem to be good value, SSDs etc, motherboards are a bit pricey, but in general PC hardware is at (IMO) reasonable ish levels, but GPUs stick out by a mile in terms of cost.

 

[SpellowHouse]

I personally think graphics cards are still way too expensive.

Compared to mid 2021 at the height of the mining thing, sure we are in a whole different world, but GPU prices compared to other PC hardware is way over the odds.

I don't think other PC hardware, RAM, CPUs seem to be good value, SSDs etc, motherboards are a bit pricey, but in general PC hardware is at (IMO) reasonable ish levels, but GPUs stick out by a mile in terms of cost.

They most certainly are too expensive.

I don't know what will happen in the future, but they have successfully killed off that hobby! I used to buy a card every generation, sometimes even two. This is the first generation I haven't bought one, and it won't be the last. I mean, I can't really see myself "upgrading" any more. £1000 for a card is not acceptable every two years. I will probably just buy one now when the old one fails, which may be three to five years.

 

[Jono8]

I personally think graphics cards are still way too expensive.

Compared to mid 2021 at the height of the mining thing, sure we are in a whole different world, but GPU prices compared to other PC hardware is way over the odds.

I don't think other PC hardware, RAM, CPUs seem to be good value, SSDs etc, motherboards are a bit pricey, but in general PC hardware is at (IMO) reasonable ish levels, but GPUs stick out by a mile in terms of cost.

It isn't necessarily new though. In circa 2007, the 8800gtx was $600 - 649 and the Ultra was $830.

That is $944 and $1,208.26 in today's money accounting for inflation.

Unfortunately, it has hit the UK harder, as our currency has tanked compared to the dollar since 2007.

Gpu's have often been very expensive.

I do agree, that they have gone too far this generation though.

 

[Murphy]

That is $944 and $1,208.26 in today's money accounting for inflation.

The 8800 GTX and Ultra were top of the range models back then so if similar top end models (4090, 4090Ti) were $1.2k you'd have a point but they ain't.