I did say they have gone too far this generation didn't I?
Still, they have often been very expensive which was the topic of the post i replied to.
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When the Gpu's prices will go down ?
- Thread starter sys6em
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I did say they have gone too far this generation didn't I?
Still, they have often been very expensive which was the topic of the post i replied to.
Soldato
Yup I am thinking the same, I mean, I am not one to upgrade often if I am honest, tend to keep them a good few years but, for reasons which I will definitely not go into in this thread, I am keen to move my 3070 at some point, but looking at what is available and the prices, I would be after something like a 7900xt and I am not paying out £750, thats not even a top end card. Those are nearer £1000.
I built a little PC recently for non gaming use, Ryzen 5600G CPU and it needed RAM, motherboard, and power supply, case and fans (used old SSD) and got the lot for just over £500. The CPU itself was only just over £100, and its not a bad little system, and you could play games on it if you wanted to.
But the point is thats a whole system (ok fine minus a drive), for just over £500, when you compare that against the cost of a GPU alone, the GPU seems pretty poor value in comparrison.
Soldato
Yeah there have been some ultra flagship niche enthusiast cards in the past, Titan X's, those AMD cards that were effectively 2 GPUs on one board come to mind, but thats not what we are being charged for today.
Soldato
Well you can get an RX6600 8GB for under £200 and there was an RX6650XT for £225 after cashback a week or two ago. So at least AMD is offering some value in the market. But by now 12GB~16GB VRAM should have been entry level,as would be faster dGPUs. The period between 2016 to 2023 pales in comparison to the period between 2009 to 2016!
Edit!!
In 2007 the 8800GT 512MB was most of the performance of the flagship 8800GTX and the prices started at $250 and that was barely a year after the launch of the 8800GTX. Even with inflation and UK VAT that would be $435 in todays money or £345.
Basically it would have been a dGPU with RTX3080TI level performance starting at £350.
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Soldato
Exactly.
I mean in the past there have always been "those" cards that were rediculously specced for the time, but those cards always were marketted as a money isnt a concern, e-peen brag card that people would buy literally so they could say they had the best without challenge, and they really were not mainsteam.
But for most gamers the top or end where I would normally go what I call "mid-top end" were always not bad value, even factoring inflation. You would always pay a bit of e-peen premium for top end, but your bang for buck started kicking in a tier or two down.
Which exactly goes back to what I said a little earlier, a 7900xt is NOT top end, and yet they still want £750, and thats seeminly good value when you compare it against the Nvidia equiavalent dont even get me started on Nvidia value for money.
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Soldato
To give another example. In 2005 and I do remember specifically buying it not far after launch at all, I bought an ATI X1800XT (fantastic card by the way) and looking up online, it states the price of that at release was £329 dollars, which converts today at £260gpb. I suspect the exchange rate was better back that as well, but lets go with that as its a worse case scenario.
At the time that was a second tier GPU, behind the X1900XT, so roughly the equivalent today of a 7900xt.
Factoring inflation from 2005, the equivalent cost of that X1800XT was £428.
At the time that was a second tier GPU, behind the X1900XT, so roughly the equivalent today of a 7900xt.
Factoring inflation from 2005, the equivalent cost of that X1800XT was £428.
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Soldato
Well AMD got lucky because of Nvidia's greed. Even though Navi 31 looks like a similar sized die to Navi 21,once you factor in that it's a mixed 5NM/6NM chip,etc it would be more like a sub 500MM2 monolithic chip if made on TSMC 4N(so is more like a tier below the Nvidia AD102).
Even if we accept the RX7900XTX as being a true RX6900XT/RX6950XT replacement with no real price increase,the RX7900XT is really between an RX7800XT and an RX7800. The RX6800XT had a $650 RRP and used 90% of the Navi 21 die and had the same amount of VRAM. The RX6800 had 75% of the Navi 21 chip and the same amount of VRAM.
The RX7900XT has 87.5% of the Navi 31 chip,and 83.3% of the VRAM. So even priced the same as the RX6800XT,it should be starting at under £650.
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You did, however when you responded to a post that said "graphics cards are still way too expensive" by saying "It isn't necessarily new though. In circa 2007, the 8800gtx was $600 - 649 and the Ultra was $830." you kind of gave the impression that you were drawing an equivalence between circa 2007 8800gtx pricing with today's prices.
And you've kind of drawn the same equivalence in the above post, relative to today's pricing they've not been very expensive because like you pointed out even adjusting for inflation a top of the line graphics card cost $1.2k back then, now it's more like $1.6k.
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Contrary to what some out of touch people in this forum believe PC gaming has become too popular so everyone is trying to make an extra buck.
From £2000 GPUs to £300 gaming keyboards and headsets. So if you want to help the situation and get prices to come down by all means switch to consoles.
www.pcgamer.com
From £2000 GPUs to £300 gaming keyboards and headsets. So if you want to help the situation and get prices to come down by all means switch to consoles.
Activision is making more money on PC than consoles for the first time, and the gap is widening
There's gold in these personalized computing hills, and Activision Blizzard is taking notice.
Soldato
The problem is with out of touch hardware enthusiasts on tech forums,they don't even understand what most PC gamers use:
All those cards are under £500,and the vast majority are sub £400 cards. The vast majority are under £400,and many are upto 7 years old.
70% of gamers are using dual cores,quad and six core CPUs:
Modern dGPU sales have collapsed:
Nvidia is now at $5.2 billion inventory and a record 225 days of inventory:
www.guru3d.com
The PC market is in turmoil:
www.gartner.com
Intel and AMD client CPU sales are terrible:
www.barrons.com
Hardware sales have collapsed. Most gamers are choosing not to buy new hardware,and are using older systems to play games on.
So it appears those moaning that people are moaning about prices,are not in touch with most gamers.
All those cards are under £500,and the vast majority are sub £400 cards. The vast majority are under £400,and many are upto 7 years old.
70% of gamers are using dual cores,quad and six core CPUs:
Modern dGPU sales have collapsed:
Nvidia is now at $5.2 billion inventory and a record 225 days of inventory:
NVIDIA Faces Inventory Challenge as Graphics Card Prices Drop in Europe and North America
In the global markets of Europe and North America, a notable decline in graphics card prices, inclusive of the latest RTX 40 series, has been observed. This trend points towards potential sales diffic...
The PC market is in turmoil:
Gartner Says Worldwide PC Shipments Declined 28.5% in Fourth Quarter of 2022 and 16.2% for the Year
Worldwide PC shipments totaled 65.3 million units in the fourth quarter of 2022, a 28.5% decrease from the fourth quarter of 2021, according to preliminary results by Gartner, Inc.
www.gartner.com
Intel and AMD client CPU sales are terrible:
Intel Posts Biggest Ever Quarterly Loss As Chip Sales Collapse
Intel on Thursday posted a massive fall in sales for the first quarter of 2023 because of a steep drop in the demand for semiconductors -- or chips -- that power personal computers and smartphones.
Hardware sales have collapsed. Most gamers are choosing not to buy new hardware,and are using older systems to play games on.
So it appears those moaning that people are moaning about prices,are not in touch with most gamers.
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Soldato
This is what Steam considers the "average" gaming PC:
It is less power than a console for sure. 65% of all gamers run games at 1080p,and most dual monitor setups are dual 1080p monitors.
Blizzard Activision makes games,which are mostly cartoony,and made to run reasonably well on a range of hardware.
Also Blizzard Activision for decades was mostly a PC only company. Things like WoW,the Diablo and StarCraft series are PC staples(the first Diablo had a PS port).
The fact that consoles still make a big amount of revenue is not a positive indication of anything. They literally moved into consoles to just get a few extra sales,and it ended up for a few years going the other way which shocked me.
It is less power than a console for sure. 65% of all gamers run games at 1080p,and most dual monitor setups are dual 1080p monitors.
Blizzard Activision makes games,which are mostly cartoony,and made to run reasonably well on a range of hardware.
Also Blizzard Activision for decades was mostly a PC only company. Things like WoW,the Diablo and StarCraft series are PC staples(the first Diablo had a PS port).
The fact that consoles still make a big amount of revenue is not a positive indication of anything. They literally moved into consoles to just get a few extra sales,and it ended up for a few years going the other way which shocked me.
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Associate
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2016
- Posts
- 533
Holy holy! That is some really interesting data! It does suggest NV are going to have to drop prices to start shifting inventory - it costs a lot to store semi's and they have a finite lifespan.
NVIDIA Faces Inventory Challenge as Graphics Card Prices Drop in Europe and North America
In the global markets of Europe and North America, a notable decline in graphics card prices, inclusive of the latest RTX 40 series, has been observed. This trend points towards potential sales diffic...
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Soldato
Maybe some of us are just realists?
Although its hard not to fall into the label of being anti-nvidia (or a moaner) when they want you to roll over and just pAy ThE aSkInG pRiCe or GTFO. The huge inventory and lethargic sales explain it pretty well.
Soldato
Also regarding the inventory,I can't wait for the something,something AI something spin. Already the moaners have made the RTX4070 get price cuts,rebates,game codes,etc thrown in due to not so great sales. Also apparently there is an RTX4060TI 16GB.
But we all saw the Turing V1 defence force. They strangely all went quiet when Turing V2 was launched. I wonder why Nvidia did it? Must be a Magical Fairy told them!
Nvidia has also significantly cut TSMC orders - but as you see AMD and Intel are also not doing so well. So its not really fair to just to talk about them.
Ironically AMD console revenues seemed to have barely flinched:
Nvidia and AMD Gaming Revenues Are Closer Than You Think
And Nvidia shares are up 10% afterhours, due to better than expected results and a booming AI business.
Which is weird considering we are into year 3 of the consoles and AMD has reduced pricing on older inventory. By now sales should start tailing off as the refreshes should be around in the next year IMHO.
It's not like even 10 or 20 years ago,Nvidia,ATI,Intel or AMD have not tried fast ones on us. The whole lot of them are chancers,and even some of the best generations in the past have come after really useless ones. Why? Because the marketing realised they had to sort of make up for it.
When that happened tons of people on forums pointed it out - that is what PCMR is about. Not E-PEEN,but actually fighting on the side of the consumer. That is why people started overclocking and modding in the late 1990s. People didn't want to pay the companies more than they needed to. I still remember unlocking graphics cards!
Edit!!
It also shows a bigger issue PCMR on forums needs to understand. If the top gets too expensive it drags the bottom up.
So the average gaming dGPU doesn't improve in performance as much. That means all those fancy effects,etc well it will take longer and longer for those to be implemented on any big level.
If the ones with unlimited dGPU budgets,want more shiny games,then they also need devs to want to put in the effort. That happens when the average hardware has decent leaps in performance and VRAM. Just showing one nearly three year old game 24/7 won't really prove anything and then them moaning lots of modern games still look rubbish.
Is it any reason the first UE5 game,ie,Fortnite looks very cartoony?
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This is a very important point:
Even for someone who only ever buys 4090 - and would buy NVIDIA L40 or similar workstation cards with the full die if only Nvidia released those with full clocks.
Well, that super big über spender market is so small that no studio would put much effort into that market as it is simply not worth their while.
No the elite spenders really desperately need those pleps to have good cards too: then if the base is a good spec, the over-spenders can play those games on 8K 120Hz screens so they get something extra for all extra money spent.
And those pleps had better be on PCs as otherwise development will be 100% console-first (currently it might be more like 95%) and no amount of over paying for top hardware is going to make those total afterthough PC ports run well.
Mind you, fancy looks IS NOT good gameplay.
Soldato
Also look at popular MOBAs orientated towards the PC crowd - very cartoony graphics which indicates they are aiming for lower end dGPUs too.
Soldato
NAND and DRAM pricing is to further drop:
www.techpowerup.com
Report: DRAM and NAND Flash Prices Expected to Fall Further in 2Q23 Due to Weak Server Shipments and High Inventory Levels
TrendForce's latest research indicates that, as production cuts to DRAM and NAND Flash have not kept pace with weakening demand, the ASP of some products is expected to decline further in 2Q23. DRAM prices are projected to fall 13~18%; NAND Flash is expected to fall between 8~13%. TrendForce...
Of course it will, because I've just bought someNAND and DRAM pricing is to further drop:
Report: DRAM and NAND Flash Prices Expected to Fall Further in 2Q23 Due to Weak Server Shipments and High Inventory Levels
TrendForce's latest research indicates that, as production cuts to DRAM and NAND Flash have not kept pace with weakening demand, the ASP of some products is expected to decline further in 2Q23. DRAM prices are projected to fall 13~18%; NAND Flash is expected to fall between 8~13%. TrendForce...
Soldato
Of course it will, because I've just bought some
I saw a Netac NV7000 2TB for under £90 and felt tempted. But need to stay stronk(plus I don't need it).
As a service to your fellow OC posters, the next time you intend to buy something do let us know so we can buy it a few days later after it has dropped in price!Of course it will, because I've just bought some