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Indeed.Tbh i seen the same said "ati fans" most of them rag the 2900 when it came out and was a flop.Just a case of the consumer venting at which ever company is trying to rip them of.
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Where did Dx10.1 from Vantage go, Nvidia knows
- Thread starter LoadsaMoney
- Start date
Indeed.Tbh i seen the same said "ati fans" most of them rag the 2900 when it came out and was a flop.Just a case of the consumer venting at which ever company is trying to rip them of.
ati forever !!!!!! shouts the guy with 8800gts lol. I think people looking forward more from ati to give some punch to nvidia but in end of the day owning 2900xt two 3870xt's witch i had some troubles with i found 8800gts the best card and lasted me longest. i hope by ati releasing something new will push nvidia to make some insane products with insane prices but then u want to pay less as possible for most amount of performance/fps like 8800gt/3850/3870 cheap but quite powerful.
so im looking for new ati/nvidia 4870xt ddr5 look good dont know nothing about 9900gtx but if they dont have at least 20% increase of performance of 8800gts g92 there is no point of buying one example 9800series...
ps: i like the red color
so im looking for new ati/nvidia 4870xt ddr5 look good dont know nothing about 9900gtx but if they dont have at least 20% increase of performance of 8800gts g92 there is no point of buying one example 9800series...
ps: i like the red color
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Well, I see endless uses of phrases like "nfail" and persons who on any thread regarding nvidia, have to post something of a "na na na na na" attitude.
Some of them even tried to tell me that nvidia chipsets on mobo's did not overclock and that my current speed was impossible on "nfail", Fudsters if you ask me, they could have cost me £300
As I said above, I prefer Nvidia, owing to a terrible experience with Ati. But if someone tells me the newest Ati has a TV-out that doesn't make everything look like a bad 1970's NTSC-PAL conversion, and Linux drivers that work perfectly, I'd certainly consider buying it. Unfortunately, when I bought my current card, Ati didn't support Dx10.
Some of them even tried to tell me that nvidia chipsets on mobo's did not overclock and that my current speed was impossible on "nfail", Fudsters if you ask me, they could have cost me £300
As I said above, I prefer Nvidia, owing to a terrible experience with Ati. But if someone tells me the newest Ati has a TV-out that doesn't make everything look like a bad 1970's NTSC-PAL conversion, and Linux drivers that work perfectly, I'd certainly consider buying it. Unfortunately, when I bought my current card, Ati didn't support Dx10.
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Permabanned
Who cares, I dont ideally want to buy a £500 GPU to be old in 6months and then need buy another.
I can game really well at High Res on all games bar 1 famous buggy game and a few bad console ports.
So why would I want a new card and drivers if Im doing ok for now ?.
I can game really well at High Res on all games bar 1 famous buggy game and a few bad console ports.
So why would I want a new card and drivers if Im doing ok for now ?.
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Soldato
noi would say they both have mislead and played dirty tricks in the past.
i know, great isnt it.
I cant think of a high profile company that has not played dirty tricks in its time that does not make them all as bad as each other.
Thank god we don't live with a Judicial system that thinks that way you do that because 2 people have done crime that they would both get the same sentence because its easier to tar with the same brush than to go into detail & look at the crimes of each & how many.
Maybe you have never come across the term the better of 2 evil`s because i can only remember 2 cases of ati getting dirty with the the paying customer with some early cards with HDCP one the box that would in fact not comply & a driver degrade for a particular game while Nvidia have a much bigger list & that why i don't buy Nvidia.
I also take into account at what innervation they have brought to the table & as far as i can remember ATI/AMD has done more for the customer than Nivdia.
ATI out right better I.Q & AA+HDR at once for a longtime until the 8800.
ATI Full WHQL every month & quick hotfixes
ATI better card features overall + adopting the latest standards faster.
ATI better multi GPU solutions with mix & match with crossfire with out disabling multi monitor.
ATI Multi GPU support on Intel Chipset.
ATI Better features in CCC than Nivdia equivalent.
Nvidia 8800.
The only thing that Nvidia has got over ATI/AMD is raw power & it should be seeing as how much funds they can throw around & the same going for Intel.
ATI/AMD should off never been able to out do Nvidia Intel is raw power as that costs loads of money but as you can see they have done it in the past because the giants were sleeping with there bellies full of money and made some smart innervations to compensate but once the innervations are out the bag then then its only a matter of time before they get adopted & add the funded raw power to the mix ATI/AMD are back where they were in 2nd place bringing innervations & this happens in every day works place as the heads of departments get recognition for ideas that come from lower down the chain.
AMD ICM
AMD Native Quad
AMD Independent voltage & speed per core.
Intel C2D.
Nvida 8800
Microsoft does the same as the other to because of its big pockets adopt innervations by others & throw loads of money at it.
See a patten now!
So don't get upset because the company with the least funds cant always have the fastest product & apply pressure to the fat & lazy giants because with out ATI/AMD or any other company in such a position were not to be around in the first place then the low prices & features we enjoy now would only ever be a dream.
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But it does say something about the market and the mistake they've made on only focusing on the fastest cards.
There's a large portion of non-DX10 cards (both nVidia and AMD) then add the number of XP owners vs number of Vista owners.
Now if DX10 worked on XP then we'd not have an issue.. MS really did shoot themselves in the foot by attempting to force everyone onto Vista DX10..
To be honest I don't see anything better for the majority of gamers (ie not the high end gfx cards) from Vista or DX10 as the rest of the platform can't cope with the high settings to get he benefit.
I think nVidia are just seeing that too.. most people I think will attempt to wait to see what the next version of windows offers. I know from a MS person that Vista internally within MS is a joke.
Soldato
where did you pull that rubbish from LOL
its very simple - dont fall for it. i didnt buy a gtx because i had a problem with ATi (i didnt, at all), i bought a gtx because it was genuinely the fastest thing available with the best image quality at the time. i dont quite know why your going off on a tangent here...
oh there's a whole list of things ati havent supported when they should have. You must remember they got caught with their pants down cheating using triliniar 'optimizations' just like nvidia did a year or so previously? that the CCC was an absolute state when it was first released? there are a lot of thing neither company have got right in their first iterations, so much so that not im not going to just 'support the little guy' for the sake of them being the little guys. i did own 4 ati cards previously remember, which should make it pretty clear how unbiased i am.
oh i dont doubt Ati have the better driver support now. not for a second and i've never said otherwise. but what does that have to do with this thread? it seems to me your just lists a whole raft of things in an attempt to get people to rally round ATi? i thought this thread was about dx10.1?
im also not sure about what adopting the very latest standards is for the end users. the 8800's are dx10 as you should know, but it took a long long time for dx10 software to start filtering through and even then it ran like sludge. If things had gone to plan then the 8800's would have ben replaced with something faster around about the middle of last year. supporting the very latest standard has always puzzled me, because the software will always follow when faster hardware is already (should already) be available. dx10 support was quite a big thing when the 8800's were released but thank god they were the fastest things in dx9 by a country mile. You are putting a lot of emphasis on multi card setups as well. if you look at the big picture here, there arent many people at all running multiple cards. I think its very important to get sli and crossfire right, but its not going to affect many people if they do.And anyway, should we then be accused of thrown money at the problem to find a solution just like you are of nvidia? so ati has a slower, but more efficiant gpu than say...the 8800gtx. why crossfire users then do is throw 2,3 even 4 cards in the mix and yes might well end up with something fast but at what cost? the same initial outlay as a gtx? what about the power usage then? through the roof? so what because the worst of the two offenders then? a hot, power hungry single gpu that is to this day very fast and capable at high resolutions or 2 smaller rival gpus that might achieve the same speed but end up using more power to do it? you seem to be overlooking that?
who cares if its a case of funds or not? it was twice as fast with better image quality - thats the only thing that matters. oh i forget one card i owned after the 9700p - i owned an x800gto2 as well! so there thats 1 more to ati. me = obviously nvidia biased lol
native quad core lol. what exactly does native quad core bring the end user? its just something to brag about. if intel can stitch two separate cores together and end up with a faster product then so be it.being native or not makes no difference at all. what's the problem with Choose intel if you want speed or choose AMD if you want efficiency? i owned 5 amd cpu's before i went with intel as well
im not upset
infact your entire posts stinks of the kind of desperation and attitudes ive been talking about. I've even said MYSELF that AMD cant just overtake intel because its a matter of how much money they can throw at it, go search for my post. So you are infact arguing with me trying to tell me things i already know - futile. i went for intel because they offered what i wanted - speed, power and affordability. if AMD were to to do same i woudl not hesitate to switch back.smart people dont lobby behind a company like ati or nvidia, AMD or intel, CREATIVE or...well there isnt another company on that level in the audio game, yet - they only want your money, nothing else. smart people buy the best for their money, period. We arent stupid enough to get caught up in fanboy wars. Loyalty will get you nowhere.
Yes, its funny isnt it!
yes but im not one of them.
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Soldato
i cant prove that. if i could id be saying the same. is it a case of dx10.1 improve ati's performance over nvidia, or that it only improves ati's performance to where it should have been with 10.0?. i mean, so far nobody has countered the question i asked previously - what have nvidia got to lose?
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Well we all know from the off there are AA problems on the HD2*** and HD3*** series and its down to their tech! However where their tech begins to work is DX10.1 with the HD 3*** series and assasins creed I believe proves this. It's kind of like they forsaw some sort of change in the future but should have concentrated on the here and now. So improvements come in the form of their performance in DX10.1 which to me isnt much of a surprise as they were technically ready for this! Sure it only closed the gap to the NV 8/9 series but they were lagging behind in terms of AA anyways!
You see where I'm coming from?
Well we all know from the off there are AA problems on the HD2*** and HD3*** series and its down to their tech! However where their tech begins to work is DX10.1 with the HD 3*** series and assasins creed I believe proves this. It's kind of like they forsaw some sort of change in the future but should have concentrated on the here and now. So improvements come in the form of their performance in DX10.1 which to me isnt much of a surprise as they were technically ready for this! Sure it only closed the gap to the NV 8/9 series but they were lagging behind in terms of AA anyways!
You see where I'm coming from?
Soldato
where did you pull that rubbish from LOL
its very simple - dont fall for it. i didnt buy a gtx because i had a problem with ATi (i didnt, at all), i bought a gtx because it was genuinely the fastest thing available with the best image quality at the time. i dont quite know why your going off on a tangent here...
oh there's a whole list of things ati havent supported when they should have. You must remember they got caught with their pants down cheating using triliniar 'optimizations' just like nvidia did a year or so previously? that the CCC was an absolute state when it was first released? there are a lot of thing neither company have got right in their first iterations, so much so that not im not going to just 'support the little guy' for the sake of them being the little guys. i did own 4 ati cards previously remember, which should make it pretty clear how unbiased i am.
oh i dont doubt Ati have the better driver support now. not for a second and i've never said otherwise. but what does that have to do with this thread? it seems to me your just lists a whole raft of things in an attempt to get people to rally round ATi? i thought this thread was about dx10.1?
And anyway, should we then be accused of thrown money at the problem to find a solution just like you are of nvidia? so ati has a slower, but more efficiant gpu than say...the 8800gtx. why crossfire users then do is throw 2,3 even 4 cards in the mix and yes might well end up with something fast but at what cost? the same initial outlay as a gtx? what about the power usage then? through the roof? so what because the worst of the two offenders then? a hot, power hungry single gpu that is to this day very fast and capable at high resolutions or 2 smaller rival gpus that might achieve the same speed but end up using more power to do it? you seem to be overlooking that?
who cares if its a case of funds or not? it was twice as fast with better image quality - thats the only thing that matters. oh i forget one card i owned after the 9700p - i owned an x800gto2 as well! so there thats 1 more to ati. me = obviously nvidia biased lol
native quad core lol. what exactly does native quad core bring the end user? its just something to brag about. if intel can stitch two separate cores together and end up with a faster product then so be it.being native or not makes no difference at all. what's the problem with Choose intel if you want speed or choose AMD if you want efficiency? i owned 5 amd cpu's before i went with intel as well
im not upset
smart people dont lobby behind a company like ati or nvidia, AMD or intel, CREATIVE or...well there isnt another company on that level in the audio game, yet - they only want your money, nothing else. smart people buy the best for their money, period. We arent stupid enough to get caught up in fanboy wars. Loyalty will get you nowhere.
Yes, its funny isnt it!
yes but im not one of them.
Ic you think that my reply was just about you.
Dont fall for what?
I didn't buy the gtx be because of bad driver support & being the fastest is not the end all & be all for me or everyone.
Yep and all your focus is speed speed speed & forget about everything else & thats exactly whats has held us up in with innervations the years with Nvidia only focusing on speed & forgot about the features & held progress up & the same with intel you would be useing a P5 now at 5Ghz if intel had there way.
Native Quad Again you focus on the speed aspect even tho & totally missing that its allows for voltage per core & speed per core you should have picked up on by my post that speed is not what i was on about & in fact intel will be going the same way just because your cant see benefit to your self does not make it something that is not worth shouting about.
and the rest of your post i don't care what you have owned or what you favor as i said that post was not just about you but.
I don't care for the fastest at the time for what ever sacrifices crowd because then i would expect no less than them to buy the top Nividia & Intel.
Some of us like to buy with a bit more thought than just getting the fastest & should be allowed to do so with out the buy the fastest make willy wavers.
It seems you cant ever see any reason for anyone buying anything else accept to what you think is the best for everyone or there just stupid.
I also never mentioned anything about fan boys because that used to wipe away any feasible reason to in favor of anything.
Oh BTW my gfx card is an Nvida atm & my next cpu will be an intel....you never can tel really can ya!
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Soldato
totally and that's what i believe we are seeing. but thats the point - what if its down to a hardware limitation just like the AA+HDR issue with the older ati's? and with 10.1 we are just seeing ATi where they should be now? (which is great btw). if ATi and nvidia were at level pegging before this 10.1 issue, then i think things would have been very different - i would have had a much better reason to believe nvidia might had something to do with this
oh i apologize but you addressed me directly with the first part of the post if it wasnt about me (or peopel like me in general) then i am sorry.
dont fall for the hype, the lies. the lenght that each company will (and has) gone to to get one other the other.
i never said it was! i said smart people buy the best for the money, not the outright fastest regardless of any other factors. the best for YOUR money comes down to your priorities and what you want from the card.
for the record, ive had very little problems with drivers for my card and hand on heart it is the quietest, fastest card i have every used.
not at all? if i wanted speed speed speed i wouldnt own an e2160, id own an extreme edition quad core. you are making this stuff up!
intel will be going the same way. i didnt say otherwise. what i said was its not as big a deal as some people seme to make it. yes it IS a technological advice but so what? the nonnative intel quads are faster than anything AMD has to offer right now. thats really the bottom line - if you want faster, its intel.
again you addressed me directly
can i ask you, what have i sacrificed by choosing (and staying with) an 8800gtx over anything else right now?
yes. some of us are smart people
james.miller said:
im not going to buy ati or amd if intel offer me more for the same outlay. its that easy
you seem to have me mixed up with some willy waver with more money than sense. you couldnt be more mistaken.
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totally and that's what i believe we are seeing. but thats the point - what if its down to a hardware limitation just like the AA+HDR issue with the older ati's? and with 10.1 we are just seeing ATi where they should be now? (which is great btw). if ATi and nvidia were at level pegging before this 10.1 issue, then i think things would have been very different - i would have had a much better reason to believe nvidia might had something to do with this
Yeah and then it's a feature.....which technically works! It's a feature that ATi have that NVidia dont! Fair enough they can say...."well sure they have it but we're still on the same level and they needed it to keep up" but they cant put that on their boxes and stuff. There's where the NV problem is, if they cant offer it they would not want it on any game features. People can be influenced by such things as new features and may sway them to buy something if they see a game supporting it! It wouldnt surprise me if they really want it removed until they are ready
Soldato
Im addressing you personally where you tal;k about your self & it should not be to hard to see when im generalizing.totally and that's what i believe we are seeing. but thats the point - what if its down to a hardware limitation just like the AA+HDR issue with the older ati's? and with 10.1 we are just seeing ATi where they should be now? (which is great btw). if ATi and nvidia were at level pegging before this 10.1 issue, then i think things would have been very different - i would have had a much better reason to believe nvidia might had something to do with this
oh i apologize but you addressed me directly with the first part of the post if it wasnt about me (or peopel like me in general) then i am sorry.
dont fall for the hype, the lies. the lenght that each company will (and has) gone to to get one other the other.
i never said it was! i said smart people buy the best for the money, not the outright fastest regardless of any other factors. the best for YOUR money comes down to your priorities and what you want from the card.
for the record, ive had very little problems with drivers for my card and hand on heart it is the quietest, fastest card i have every used.
not at all? if i wanted speed speed speed i wouldnt own an e2160, id own an extreme edition quad core. you are making this stuff up!
intel will be going the same way. i didnt say otherwise. what i said was its not as big a deal as some people seme to make it. yes it IS a technological advice but so what? the nonnative intel quads are faster than anything AMD has to offer right now. thats really the bottom line - if you want faster, its intel.
again you addressed me directly
can i ask you, what have i sacrificed by choosing (and staying with) an 8800gtx over anything else right now?
yes. some of us are smart people
im not going to buy ati or amd if intel offer me more for the same outlay. its that easy
My attitude is from first hand experience with intel/nvida/amd/creative hardware & from the experience of others & i for one don't fall for marketing or hype.
The Nvidia Ultra card is going to a new home & will be replaced with 3x Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 3870 XT "Toxic Edition" that will drive my 30" SAM & 2x21" CRT more powerful over all plus single slot & room for my TV & Soundcard & Maybe RaidCard.
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Soldato
i hope for your sake that it is. you'll just have to try and forgot the power usage of 3x 3870xt gpus, because you're looking at 550-600w of consumption there. thats ironic after what you said about throwing money at a problem, and efficiency.whats even more ironic is you owning a gtx ultra and a 30" lcd after your speech about spending money lol
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Soldato
Only thing i worry about when it comes to power is will the PSU hold up i have tripped the last 3.
true quad core allows the cores to talk to each other better, also u can clock each core separately. i bought amd processor/motherboard for the features. not everybody is looking for the best speed for they money, u gonna also include the best features for your money. which amd as the best features. personly one of the best features for me is to be able to do all the overclocking in windows....native quad core lol. what exactly does native quad core bring the end user? its just something to brag about. if intel can stitch two separate cores together and end up with a faster product then so be it.being native or not makes no difference at all. what's the problem with Choose intel if you want speed or choose AMD if you want efficiency? i owned 5 amd cpu's before i went with intel as well
Soldato
I gave AMD OverDrive ago & was impressed by what can be done with it but i still like to do it the BIOS way, but in your circumstance i can see why you use it.