Where to Propose!!!

[dangerstat]

That answered 1 out of the 4 questions.

I don't think you get it, if it's relgious then you do something or act a certain way because you think it's the right thing to do. You don't force people to goto church they just do. It answers all of your questions.

On why would do people do it. That's simple it's a symbol of comittment, how deeply you love someone.

 

[ChrisJSY]

I dont think you get it mate, its not all about you and what you want

Actually yes it is, it's my life.
I don't want to get married and any prospective female partner learns this early on. It hasn't been a problem so far.

Also, you say you do it for your partner as if she shouldn't do it to respect you, also I don't think it'd be nice that someone would marry me to make me happy (if I wanted to). It has to go both ways.

That's simple it's a symbol of comittment, how deeply you love someone.

Can we agree that this is a symbol of commitment to SOME people and not everyone, to me it's just a religous tradition and I don't need that kind of thing

 

[sigma]

So lets start a pool on how long after the marriage she leaves him with her new British passport.

Six months, whether or not it's passport related I can't predict.

 

[Angilion]

I don't think you get it, if it's relgious then you do something or act a certain way because you think it's the right thing to do. You don't force people to goto church they just do. It answers all of your questions.

On why would do people do it. That's simple it's a symbol of comittment, how deeply you love someone.

The question was why you would force people to stay together when it was causing suffering to them, not why would someone get married. Which your "simple" answer doesn't answer anyway.

Obedience to religion does answer all the questions for some people, but marriage is not necessarily religious. Religion was stuck on to marriage much later (in England, anyway) and has mostly fallen off again nowadays. It was only mostly religious for a few centuries.

 

[dangerstat]

The question was why you would force people to stay together when it was causing suffering to them, not why would someone get married. Which your "simple" answer doesn't answer anyway.

Obedience to religion does answer all the questions for some people, but marriage is not necessarily religious. Religion was stuck on to marriage much later (in England, anyway) and has mostly fallen off again nowadays. It was only mostly religious for a few centuries.

You have to understand that for me marriage is a relgious thing, without the relgion it's not a marriage. And in terms of "causing suffering" what do you mean, that one partner is a bit sad? Like I say if it's serious physical or emmotional abuse that is grounds for an anulment.

For people who aren't religous then marriage doesn't make sense I think. How I view marriage is an act where you swear to love someone no-matter what. No ifs, not buts, you swear to sick by them. Today people get divorces because of nothing, and it completely undervalues those that stick to their vows through thick and thin because of how much they love each other. And it's that act, which people should aspire to in my view.

 

[ChrisJSY]

Dangerstat, you say it's a religious thing.
That's fine, except some people here have their own personal opinions on it and won't accept other people's views.

Which is sad.

If I ever loved someone, I hope they don't expect me to marry them to prove it, that would be, to me, her not trusting me without marriage and then i'd be insulted.
I'll say it again though, I'll make sure any girl knows this well before things get serious.

 

[dangerstat]

Dangerstat, you say it's a religious thing.
That's fine, except some people here have their own personal opinions on it and won't accept other people's views.

Which is sad.

If I ever loved someone, I hope they don't expect me to marry them to prove it, that would be, to me, her not trusting me without marriage and then i'd be insulted.
I'll say it again though, I'll make sure any girl knows this well before things get serious.

I think that's perfectly sensible, no one should get married if they don't want to, for whatever reason it may be.

WRT to the OP I understand what state of mind he is in, we've (well probably all of us) been in the situation where we're young *think* we totally love someone and are ready to marry them. Experience tells you to be more cautious and see the obvious pitfalls that your blinded from when your a youngster. All the replies seem to echo the same thing, you need time, you need to live together before you know whether it's the right decision. I wish him al the best, but it stinks of passport grabbing to me. Good luck to him though

 

[fini]

Yeah, with all the divorces going around these days I can see how it's forever, you go tell those couples how "forever" that was.

I said that they want to be with that person forever. If you marry someone thinking that you wont be with that person forever then you're doing the wrong thing. The fact that some people get divorced is irrelevant to the sentiment at the time.

I think it's naive of you to think everyone wants to or should take part in another religous event because it's the "normal thing to do" and if you don't you're not the right person?

Firstly it's not necessarily a religious event - you can get married without mentioning God once. Even in religious ceremonies the person of the ceremony taking place in a religious context is purely to show how solemn the vows that you make are. Secondly, if you've been with someone for years and years and you don't want to spend the rest of your life with that person, you are with the wrong person. The right person makes you happy to be alive, makes you thankful for every day you spend with them and you miss them every second they're gone. If the thought of spending your life without them isn't like the thought of spending life without your eyes, your ears, your heart, your soul, after spending 5 or 10 years with them, then they aren't the right person for you; because that's how the right person should make you feel.

I don't go to church, I don't believe in a god. I make this clear to my girlfriends and I let them know marriage is not something I want to do, it's just a pointless ceremony to me, sure most people dream of it growing up and spend so much money on it when it does happen and wants to show off to all their friends and family, but I don't need those things.

Again, marriage does not have to have anything to do with God. Look up the etymology of the word 'marry' - it is an oath. Getting wed to 'show off' would also be the wrong reason to get married.

I'm a realist, I don't need need the comfort of a binding document to tell me how much I love someone/someone loves me, as well as self confident enough not to worry about my girlfriend leaving me. I'm a realist because I know it isn't a "final" thing, marriages can be undone so there's no point in even entertaining the thought it will last forever.

Marriage is not meant to be as a comfort to people who might otherwise feel that their partner might leave them. It is as I've previously detailed. It is having the conviction to stand up in front of people you care about and tell them how you feel. It is making an oath to your partner that you will forsake all others for them, that they are the most important thing in your life and that you see yourself as fully, completely and wholeheartedly committed to them and the relationship.

To say that marriages can be undone, as a reason to not even entertain the thought it will last forever, is a reason never to date anyone ever. Why date someone when you know that eventually they will hurt you? It's like saying I will not buy a house because it will set on fire. Sure, the house might set on fire, it's a remote possibility, but you don't buy the house thinking about that. You buy the house because it's the home you want and you intend, at that moment, to live there for as long as you can imagine.

I honestly feel bad for you if you haven't enough self assuredness and hope in your life to believe that a relationship of yours could be good enough that it would last you a lifetime. That said, maybe you've just not met the right person yet - or maybe you have and they've broken your heart. Either way, to find someone you want to spend your life with is a blessing - to not allow yourself to entertain the thought that it might be forever is a curse.

 

[fini]

If marriage has to be for life, then you must have some means of forcing people to remain married when neither of them want to.

No not at all. You would say that your arm is for life, but if you lost it in some accident you don't have a way of forcing it to remain on your body. If you lose it you'd be devastated, it's not something anyone would want to happen, but just because there's the possibility of losing your arm in an accident doesn't mean that you don't expect your arm to be attached to you forever.

 

[ChrisJSY]

Snip

I don't think I'm explaining myself correctly, I agree with many of your points.

The three points I want to pick up on is this;

To say that marriages can be undone, as a reason to not even entertain the thought it will last forever, is a reason never to date anyone ever.

I know what you mean when you say even dating you're not sure it will last, so what's the point, but we do it anyway don't we? Agreed.

But some people are getting married to be and I am trying to find the right word here, together forever?, to show commitment? eternal devotion?.
Basically sealing and stamping the relationship?

Okay, that's fine.

I That said, maybe you've just not met the right person yet - or maybe you have and they've broken your heart.

Maybe you're right in a sense. I am unable to tell for myself what mental problems I have, usually the beholder (me) is not able to tell but the outsiders eye (you) can see changes/patterns in other people.

Maybe I have been affected, in the past I've been through a violent relationship and have had people mislay their trust. My parents also divorced.
It could have rubbed off on me.

I know this is going way off the original topic, but if anything I'm glad to have gone through what I have because it's given me more insight and precaution.

Either way, to find someone you want to spend your life with is a blessing - to not allow yourself to entertain the thought that it might be forever is a curse.

But I didn't say that, or at least I hope I did not.
I can spend my life with someone if they are the right person, I just don't need marriage to make me feel, what's that word you used? "self assuredness" or.. Assurance.

I'm just a very cautious person after being messed over many times.

 

[finga]

Actually yes it is, it's my life.
I don't want to get married and any prospective female partner learns this early on. It hasn't been a problem so far.

Also, you say you do it for your partner as if she shouldn't do it to respect you, also I don't think it'd be nice that someone would marry me to make me happy (if I wanted to). It has to go both ways.




Can we agree that this is a symbol of commitment to SOME people and not everyone, to me it's just a religous tradition and I don't need that kind of thing

well one thing you come across as is being very selfish by only taking your own feelings into consideration
tbh youre lucky to have any woman stay with you for a length of time knowing that you dont care about her wishes aswell as your own, crushing someone elses hopes because of your own stubborness is not laying a good foundation for a lifelong partnership, it certainly sounds like something in your personal life has put you so against the idea, which is a shame, because its nothing to be wary of if its the right woman

I got married to my wife not just to make her happy, I did it to make us happy, you dont ask somebody to marry you just to make them happy without considering yourself too, if I had decided that i definately never wanted to get married then I wouldnt have, and only an idiot would do that

 

[Angilion]

No not at all. You would say that your arm is for life, but if you lost it in some accident you don't have a way of forcing it to remain on your body. If you lose it you'd be devastated, it's not something anyone would want to happen, but just because there's the possibility of losing your arm in an accident doesn't mean that you don't expect your arm to be attached to you forever.

Being married is not comparable with having an arm.

I'll nail it down...

Two people enter a relationship.

After some time, they have changed. Either of them, both of them, doesn't matter.

The relationship no longer works. They are both unhappy. Maybe extremely so. Maybe they now hate each other. Maybe being together is ruining both their lives.

So why would you force them to stay together?

I am not talking about the rare circumstances that would warrant an annulment.

If you want to compare it to arms, it's more like this:

You have cancer and gangrene in your arm. It's rotting off and causing you pain and suffering. It doesn't work as an arm any more, either. It's going to ruin your life until you die. You could have it amputated, but you're not allowed to. If you ask why not, people tell you it's because your arm is healthy, even though it isn't. This doesn't make sense to you.

 

[ChrisJSY]

Finga, that post shows how you didn't read entirely what I said.

- Selfish and only thing about my own feelings? My GF also does not want to get married either.
How can I be selfish when I make this known in a relationship and why is it selfish to not want to get married? Why isn't it selfish for the person wanting to get married.
You know, it goes both ways or didn't you think of that?

- Lucky to have any women stay with me? How dare you assume every single women on planet earth wants to get married.

- I'd also like to know how you know my GF wants to marry and how I "crushed" her hopes. Again assuming she does?

Do you know her?

I'm asking for an apology, I tried to keep it mature in my last post.


Dangerstat If you read this, finga, the person above is the kind of person I was trying to mention to you, the kind of people who don't understand everyones different and if you don't do what they do, you're all kinds of "wrong".

 

[Mp4]

ITALY

LAKE GARDA
OR
VENICE

i did my proposal to my gf in the middle of an Italian restaurant 3 years ago

 

[Sanguinnus]

Isn't the proposal of marriage supposed to be special because it's something you thought up that would be relevant and endearing to your other half? Surely posting on an internet forum for ideas belittles the romantic resonance of such a move.

 

[Vixen]

Being married is not comparable with having an arm.

I'll nail it down...

Two people enter a relationship.

After some time, they have changed. Either of them, both of them, doesn't matter.

The relationship no longer works. They are both unhappy. Maybe extremely so. Maybe they now hate each other. Maybe being together is ruining both their lives.

So why would you force them to stay together?

I am not talking about the rare circumstances that would warrant an annulment.

If you want to compare it to arms, it's more like this:

You have cancer and gangrene in your arm. It's rotting off and causing you pain and suffering. It doesn't work as an arm any more, either. It's going to ruin your life until you die. You could have it amputated, but you're not allowed to. If you ask why not, people tell you it's because your arm is healthy, even though it isn't. This doesn't make sense to you.

I don't think you understand what he is saying. It's not that people should never get divorced, it's that you shouldn't go into a marriage if you don't honestly believe you will be with that person for the rest of your life.

 

[Angilion]

Isn't the proposal of marriage supposed to be special because it's something you thought up that would be relevant and endearing to your other half? Surely posting on an internet forum for ideas belittles the romantic resonance of such a move.

I'm thinking of a letter from a cleric in England in the early middle ages, complaining about how little power the church had regarding marriages. He was prompted to write the letter by witnessing a marriage at an inn. The man asked the woman if she wanted to marry him, the woman said she did, marriage done. Not just proposal - that was a legal marriage. Even now, even after the church and state took over, the spoken agreement of the two people is the defining aspect of a marriage, which starts when the second person states their agreement to marry.

 

[Gimpymoo]

Start a "Will you marry me" thread for the win.

It needs to be somewhere of your own thinking.

When the future Mrs says "Where did you get the idea" and you say "balls_in_my_mouth_4_life" said it on the OcUK forums, is that really gonna cut it?

 

[Angilion]

I don't think you understand what he is saying. It's not that people should never get divorced, it's that you shouldn't go into a marriage if you don't honestly believe you will be with that person for the rest of your life.

This is entirely about forcing people to stay together when they don't want to do so. Diversions about what people think when they get married are irrelevant.

 

[Sanguinnus]

I'm thinking of a letter from a cleric in England in the early middle ages, complaining about how little power the church had regarding marriages. He was prompted to write the letter by witnessing a marriage at an inn. The man asked the woman if she wanted to marry him, the woman said she did, marriage done. Not just proposal - that was a legal marriage. Even now, even after the church and state took over, the spoken agreement of the two people is the defining aspect of a marriage, which starts when the second person states their agreement to marry.

granted, horses for courses I guess. My statement was based maybe more on my own outlook on marriage, if and when I do go down that route I know I for one woud want it to be special and mean something. I feel that asking someone else to either make or help make that decision belittles the specialness of it.