Where to Propose!!!

[Angilion]

[..]
No it's really not. I understand why you think that based on how you view what getting married means, but that is where you go wrong.

Getting married is two people standing up in front of all their friends and family and telling them that they are committing themselves whole-heartedly to that person.

You can do that without getting married.

You can get married without doing that.

Therefore marriage is not that. That's one of the places where you go wrong.

Until you are married walking away from that person is easy, by getting married you are putting barriers in between yourself and splitting up showing that you have no intention of ever doing so. When you're married you're essentially one person to the outside world - the Angilion's.

I reject the idea that a married couple should be treated as essentially one person. That was Norman law, and it caused no end of injustice, especially for women.

Marriage does not constitute a massive commitment unless it is impossible or very difficult to get a divorce or annulment. Co-buying a house is perhaps more of a commitment nowadays.

I question the wisdom of forcing people to stay together when it makes them unhappy. That's essentially what commitment is in this context - a requirement to stay together whatever happens. Not staying together because you both want to - that doesn't require the binding together you are talking about or the denial of individuality you are talking about. Commitment like that only becomes relevant when you want to leave the relationship.

By both giving up a part of your individual persona, in the hope of creating something better, you are saying that this person is now part of who you are, not just a nice add-on like a coat that'll you'll throw away when it's out of fashion.

It is possible to do that without getting married.

It is possible to get married without doing that.

Therefore marriage is not that.

To put it ultra-simplistically, after however many years, if you're not willing (let alone wanting with every fibre of your body) to stand up in front of your friends and family and tell them 'actually this isn't just a short-term thing, I want to be with this person forever and I'm very proud to be able to say that' then they're probably not the right person for you.[..]

My sister has been with her man for almost 30 years. They co-own a house. They have a son. They are happily content together. Friends and family know very well they intend to be together for life. They're not just saying so - three decades say they mean it.

They aren't married.

Do you really consider that to be a short-term relationship that will be discarded as casually as an old coat?

Really?

 

[fini]

My question would be what's stopping them getting married? If they love each other so much and intend to spend the rest of their life together what's stopping them?

 

[Talbs13]

30 years being together and she hasnt gave any hints that she wants to get married? Strange.

 

[Angilion]

My question would be what's stopping them getting married? If they love each other so much and intend to spend the rest of their life together what's stopping them?

Nothing's stopping them getting married. Why do you assume there is?

Why do you assume that "ove each other so much and intend to spend the rest of their life together" means "marriage"? You may as well assume that apples are deckchairs - there's about as much connection.

 

[Angilion]

30 years being together and she hasnt gave any hints that she wants to get married? Strange.

Why? She's not religious and she doesn't feel a need to have official state approval of her relationship, so the only possible reason for marriage is to simplify financial arrangements if one of them dies. Maybe they've made legal arrangements for that, maybe they've just ignored their own mortality, as many people do.

 

[ChrisJSY]

To put it ultra-simplistically, after however many years, if you're not willing (let alone wanting with every fibre of your body) to stand up in front of your friends and family and tell them 'actually this isn't just a short-term thing, I want to be with this person forever and I'm very proud to be able to say that' then they're probably not the right person for you.

Yeah, with all the divorces going around these days I can see how it's forever, you go tell those couples how "forever" that was.


I think it's naive of you to think everyone wants to or should take part in another religous event because it's the "normal thing to do" and if you don't you're not the right person?

I don't go to church, I don't believe in a god. I make this clear to my girlfriends and I let them know marriage is not something I want to do, it's just a pointless ceremony to me, sure most people dream of it growing up and spend so much money on it when it does happen and wants to show off to all their friends and family, but I don't need those things.

I'm a realist, I don't need need the comfort of a binding document to tell me how much I love someone/someone loves me, as well as self confident enough not to worry about my girlfriend leaving me. I'm a realist because I know it isn't a "final" thing, marriages can be undone so there's no point in even entertaining the thought it will last forever.

People who do live in a la-la land.



Note: I respect people who want to get married but when people use the excuse you used as one, that takes the logic biscuit. It doesn't make sense. It isn't forever.

 

[finga]

Yeah, with all the divorces going around these days I can see how it's forever, you go tell those couples how "forever" that was.


I think it's naive of you to think everyone wants to or should take part in another religous event because it's the "normal thing to do" and if you don't you're not the right person?

I don't go to church, I don't believe in a god. I make this clear to my girlfriends and I let them know marriage is not something I want to do, it's just a pointless ceremony to me, sure most people dream of it growing up and spend so much money on it when it does happen and wants to show off to all their friends and family, but I don't need those things.

I'm a realist, I don't need need the comfort of a binding document to tell me how much I love someone/someone loves me, as well as self confident enough not to worry about my girlfriend leaving me. I'm a realist because I know it isn't a "final" thing, marriages can be undone so there's no point in even entertaining the thought it will last forever.

People who do live in a la-la land.



Note: I respect people who want to get married but when people use the excuse you used as one, that takes the logic biscuit. It doesn't make sense. It isn't forever.

I dont think you get it mate, its not all about you and what you want

I'm a realist because I know it isn't a "final" thing, marriages can be undone so there's no point in even entertaining the thought it will last forever.

its this attitude that brings about the divorce rate today

I dont think you understand what marriage is, its a statement of commitment that you make to each other in front of God, and an invitation from God to bring children into the world, and it is forever, divorce is just the piece of paper, telling you that you failed in your choices

I said I would never get married, I dont go to church, I dont believe in God, however im not the only person in my marriage, and my wife is catholic, I married her because I knew I was going to spend my life with her and its what she wanted, so I stood in church and gave the woman I love exactly what she wanted, and when you are saying your vows looking into your wifes eyes, you dont even notice anybody else is there, youre doing it for each other, not anybody else, its in no way showing off, its the most intense thing I have ever done

people with an attitude about how bad marriage is are usually either a) scared by knowing they are going to end up with someone else eventually, or b) scared of being the centre of attention for the day, if people dont love their partner enough to overcome either of these issues then they shouldnt be getting married anyway

 

[Tefal]

its this attitude that brings about the divorce rate today

The attitude of not wanted to get married, causes high divorce rates

How'd you riddle that one, if everyone had that attitude there would be a zero divorce rate. (and zero marriage rate)

 

[kai6]

One year's pretty soon, but wish you the best of luck, I'd look at her favourite movies/books, as in romcoms, and see where they are set because that could be where she has conjured her idea of the perfect romantic place from, such as if she loves memoirs of a geisha, In a cherry blossom garden in Japan could be an idea, or if she like the Matrix, create an alternate reality and do it there. Gd luck!

 

[dangerstat]

The attitude of not wanted to get married, causes high divorce rates

How'd you riddle that one, if everyone had that attitude there would be a zero divorce rate. (and zero marriage rate)

I think he means the "Oh well may aswell give it ago, I can just get a divorce if it doesn't work out" attitude. Personally I think marraige has to be for life, and you have to think that when you head into it, otherwise it's not the sign of commitment it should be.

 

[finga]

The attitude of not wanted to get married, causes high divorce rates

How'd you riddle that one, if everyone had that attitude there would be a zero divorce rate. (and zero marriage rate)

lol, i thought that was obvious but maybe i should have cut the rest of the quote out and just left the bit saying he knows its not a final thing

 

[etom]

marriage is also a nice day with lots of photos to remember the pinnacle in a relationship often before they have kids :]. Doesn't have to be just for bit of paper / legal reasons / religion.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Without putting too much of a dampener on this, the chances are you have a 33% chance of the marriage failing (if not more) and proposing in a dream location and spending lots of money on a wedding does not make the marriage last longer.

 

[Talbs13]

Delete

 

[Delvis]

i need to take a chance and enjoy my life while i am still healthy-ish.

Life would be boring otherwise.

 

[Angilion]

I think he means the "Oh well may aswell give it ago, I can just get a divorce if it doesn't work out" attitude. Personally I think marraige has to be for life, and you have to think that when you head into it, otherwise it's not the sign of commitment it should be.

If marriage has to be for life, then you must have some means of forcing people to remain married when neither of them want to.

So, I have a few questions for you and the other people with the same attitude towards marriage:

i) How would you force them do so?
ii) Would you force people to live together, or would you allow them to separate while remaining married?
iii) If one spouse is abusing the other, would you allow the victim to leave (if you would let spouses live apart at all) or divorce?

And the big question from my point of view:

iv) Why on Earth would you want to do such a thing at all?

Please don't quibble about the word 'force', because you are talking about making people do things against their will and that requires force of some kind. It is impossible to do what you want to do without using force.

 

[Doran]

Why has this thread been hijacked?

I proposed in Paris. Its a low risk option. I got down on one knee on the pont neuf. We stayed in Marais. It was excellent, but I spent loads.

 

[dangerstat]

If marriage has to be for life, then you must have some means of forcing people to remain married when neither of them want to.

So, I have a few questions for you and the other people with the same attitude towards marriage:

i) How would you force them do so?
ii) Would you force people to live together, or would you allow them to separate while remaining married?
iii) If one spouse is abusing the other, would you allow the victim to leave (if you would let spouses live apart at all) or divorce?

And the big question from my point of view:

iv) Why on Earth would you want to do such a thing at all?

Please don't quibble about the word 'force', because you are talking about making people do things against their will and that requires force of some kind. It is impossible to do what you want to do without using force.

Personally I'm Catholic so I don't really recognise a divorce as the end of a marriage, an anulment because the partner is abusive is different and perfectly possible.

 

[Tefal]

So lets start a pool on how long after the marriage she leaves him with her new British passport.

 

[Angilion]

Personally I'm Catholic so I don't really recognise a divorce as the end of a marriage, an anulment because the partner is abusive is different and perfectly possible.

That answered 1 out of the 4 questions.