why all the hate for hs2?

[GreatAuk]

Fusion is pretty much cracked and there's no real way to boost the speed of it.
The reactors take decades to build and years to bring on line.
The first reactor prooved their calculations. Next reactor they are building now boosts that knowledge(ITER -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER) and will prove the next step and the one after that is a proper power station (demo - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEMO)

Just look at the length to do stuff

2006-11-21 Seven participants formally agreed to fund the creation of a nuclear fusion reactor.[9]
...
2026 Predicted: Start of deuterium-tritium operation.[22]
2038 Predicted: End of project.

And demos time frame

Conceptual design is to be complete by 2017
...
The first phase of operation is to last from 2033 to 2038

mmm, I like reading about fusion...
Yes, I realise it's in motion and has a timetable, but I imagine if more funds were available immediately they'd be able to do some of it faster, by hiring more workmen/scientists/superconductor factories or whatever? Especially as (according to wikipedia) it's only going to cost 15bn Euros.
I suppose it might be hard to speed it up considerably, and I don't know much about this project... It just feels like it doesn't get the hype it deserves - it seems to me that it has much greater potential to affect people's everyday lives than, for example, the LHC, yet it gets much less press (I suppose that's probably because the LHC opened recently, but still...).

 

[Deleted member 651465]

like bt's FTTH upgrades then? not everyone needs fast internet believe it or not. doesnt mean we shouldnt upgrade the infrastructure where there is a problem.

Which is better:

1) Money spent on national telecommunications network, that gives everyone equal Internet speeds (regardless of want, bit like the agreement to put a phoneline to every home) using a fibre to the home system.

2) A high speed rail link that goes between 2 cities?

 

[Delvis]

Which is better:

1) Money spent on national telecommunications network, that gives everyone equal Internet speeds (regardless of want, bit like the agreement to put a phoneline to every home) using a fibre to the home system.

2) A high speed rail link that goes between 2 cities?

While I get your point, I believe it isn't JUST got Brum to London

 

[Deleted member 651465]

While I get your point, I believe it isn't JUST got Brum to London

I'd have more sympathy if they came out and said it was going to be a national network that initially cover the capitals (London, Cardiff and Edinburgh ), with a link to the channel tunnel.. But 2 cities, that, as mentioned, isn't even the busiest rail journey.

Sorry, but this is one huge mistake as far as I'm concerned

 

[gropingmantis]

Such a waste of money why did they not spend it on improving internet infrastructure? I bet £33bn could give everyone in the country Gb connections which would improve productivity a hell of a lot more than a shorter train journey between London and Birmingham.

Thats what happens when you have old fuddy duddys in power.

ALSO if they HAD to have trains why not MagLev? I did a lot of work on MagLev whilst at Uni and its bloody brilliant and not much more expensive than this proposal for a faster more efficient train.

 

[starfighter]

I would also prefer Maglev but it is a lot more expensive and we are getting fibre internet anway. HS2 is a good idea.

 

[gropingmantis]

I would also prefer Maglev but it is a lot more expensive and we are getting fibre internet anway. HS2 is a good idea.

Its not a lot more expensive. The reason why it was rejected by the government was made quite clear in a whitepaper a few years ago. It is too loud!

Thats right the government rejected MagLev on the grounds that it is too loud! WTFBBQ?!?!?!?!?

Also we are getting FTTC at the moment. How long will it be before FTTH? Answer: A long bloody time. How long till FTTH with a £33bn cash injection? Answer: not long at all.

 

[starfighter]

If it was simply too lound I would agree, Maglev would be sweet but it is a lot more expensive. trains floating around on magnets aint cheap. Only China has a decent amount of it and they have more cash than they know what to do with.

also BT expect to have 80% of the country with FTTC very shortly.

 

[iamtheoneneo]

The government should pay these homeowners at least market value plus a sum for inconvenience, I empathise there.

we wont get that though - we WILL get screwed over. I will have to sell up by 2014 regardless of the final decision to even stand a remote chance of getting the value of my property back.

 

[starfighter]

From the Openreach wesbite.

"Right now we're upgrading the network, by laying fibre optic cables over the current copper lines. We're using £2.5 billion committed by BT Group to make superfast fibre broadband available to two-thirds of the homes in Britain by 2014."

They expect 2/3 of homes to get atleast FTTC which will mean 80mbs. not exactly what I call a bad situation.

 

[gropingmantis]

If it was simply too lound I would agree, Maglev would be sweet but it is a lot more expensive. trains floating around on magnets aint cheap. Only China has a decent amount of it and they have more cash than they know what to do with.

also BT expect to have 80% of the country with FTTC very shortly.

You are wrong. With the German Transrapid system it costs roughly £12m/km and HS2 is 180km so the cost for the system would be just over £2bn for the infrastructure obviously you have to add station costs and cuttings but it is not as expensive as people think.

Also MagLev trains make no noise other than the sound of air passing over than them so they are faaaar quieter than a conventional engine powered train.

 

[gropingmantis]

From the Openreach wesbite.

"Right now we're upgrading the network, by laying fibre optic cables over the current copper lines. We're using £2.5 billion committed by BT Group to make superfast fibre broadband available to two-thirds of the homes in Britain by 2014."

They expect 2/3 of homes to get atleast FTTC which will mean 80mbs. not exactly what I call a bad situation.

But BT's idea of superfast broadband is 80Mb. With £33bn you could give the entire country (not just 2/3) Gb in the same time frame.

 

[rogan]

Pfft its prices that are the problem, a 19 minute train from macclesfield to manchester in the morning is now £13. absolutely ridiculous that they can fathom charging that much

 

["andy"]

instead of spending 32 billion on making it easier to get to london why not spend the money on making other cities as big as london for business....

surely not impossible ? and surely benefits more people.

 

[starfighter]

But BT's idea of superfast broadband is 80Mb. With £33bn you could give the entire country (not just 2/3) Gb in the same time frame.

Trains are more useful than gigabit internet and maglev costs a fortune. 80mb is fine for now. You are just wrong. Can't be bothered arguing.

 

[sven256]

Trains are more useful than gigabit internet and maglev costs a fortune. 80mb is fine for now. You are just wrong. Can't be bothered arguing.

Total rubbish. Whilst i may agree if the entire network was getting an overhaul it's not. it's a very limited part.

Ok 80 meg is not fine even if the backbone is there to take it, which it is not.
With more and more things moving over to the internet greater and greater speeds are going to be needed soon. With things like high definition internet tv, gaming, music streaming, general browsing. if the entire country wanted to do this at once it would grind to a halt.

 

[Mr Krugga]

It's a long-term project that costs a lot of money.

Chances are it can be delayed or go over budget like many others and that is what scares the politicians.

We all know that some infrastructure modernisation is needed and investing in this development may just be a good start.

 

[gropingmantis]

Trains are more useful than gigabit internet and maglev costs a fortune. 80mb is fine for now. You are just wrong. Can't be bothered arguing.

Its not trains. Its one new line. One new line will not ease congestion on existing lines nor help reduce prices.

As has been said "fine for now" is not good enough. Things are moving towards cloud based computing fast, more people use the internet than use trains.

Also MagLev is not as expensive as you seem to think. Do some research. Look at the facts.

You are as stuck in the past as much as the MP's who thought this was a good way to spend £33bn.

This is why we need a technocracy, otherwise we will find ourselves being left behind the rest of the world.

 

[jumpy]

Hs2 sounds like a bit of a white elephant from what I've heard on the radio recently. Bit like the idea of the private sector running to the rescue of the economy, like some chivalric night-errant, in the wake of public sector cuts... it all sounds good and romantic, but the reality will be dirty and uncomfortable and unhealthy - this will be glossed over as much as possible.

I think progress is a good thing, but the reason we are behind many european countries in terms of rail transport is two-fold: firstly our rail system is not as heavily subsidised as some of our european counterparts, secondly in comparison to france and germany for example, our rail network is well over a hundred years old... all of theirs was rebuilt in the last 70 years or so. So comparisons with what could be achieved are not exactly honest, even if they're not directly false.

Governments seem to prefer prestige over the mundane and practical, however; the millenium dome, 2012 olympics, HS2. You get the idea.

I will make the following predictions regarding HS2 - it will be over budget, it will be late, it will fail to meet the demands of its purpose, it will not be of all that much benefit to most of the people who have to use trains in this country. The only question is really how much of these points it will fail by. I suspect the answer will be 'lots and lots'

 

[starfighter]

Its not trains. Its one new line. One new line will not ease congestion on existing lines nor help reduce prices.

As has been said "fine for now" is not good enough. Things are moving towards cloud based computing fast, more people use the internet than use trains.

VDSL at 80mb is still a lot better than ADSL2, half the line is fibre, eventually they will do the other half. I don't think we can complain, it is still a very subsidised service. Once we all have VDSL then they will upgrade to full fibre. Most peoples LAN at home isn't even gigabit.

Also MagLev is not as expensive as you seem to think. Do some research. Look at the facts.

I have, it costs a fortune. The Japanese maglev line is estimated to cost 82 billion $ and it is a shorter distance than this project.

You are as stuck in the past as much as the MP's who thought this was a good way to spend £33bn.

It is a lot of money but it is a massive project spanning decades. Lines all over the country are still being electrified and getting more carriages

This is why we need a technocracy, otherwise we will find ourselves being left behind the rest of the world.

Yes lets just give up on democracy and have some engineers incharge we vote for the party we think is best for the country, they inturn consult engineers. getting rid of deomcracy wouldn't end well. Hitler quite liked technology...

Maglev is better but we just can't afford it. You complain we are living in the past, well without HSR we are, all of europe has it FFS.