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why all the hate for hs2?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 233, Jan 10, 2012.

  1. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 24,338

    What pledge is that?

    I can't find anything else.

    The optimal outcome seems to be '**** the North, we love London'...
     
  2. explicit4u

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 29, 2008

    Posts: 9,794

    Location: London

    Well you've got Birmingham being the central hub of HS2 for starters, plus a new station at Toton for the East Midlands. Removing fast trains on any north/south line benefits the midlands in terms of capacity, you know, the whole reason HS2 is being built...

    Upgrades of the existing links is already happening under the £14bn Great North Rail Project (GNRP). HS3/ Northern Power Rail (NPR), if they go ahead, will work to provide new and improved links in the north.

    London-Birmingham is going to be the most heavily used part of HS2, it doesn't make sense to delay what's likely to be the most profitable part of the line to appease the north. Not to mention that the southern parts of the west coast mainline are near capacity and delaying them further, when rail passengers are increasing, is short sighted. If they had the money and capacity to work on HS3/NPR at the same time as HS2 that would be the ideal choice.
     
  3. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 24,338

    Ahh because it's all about money and never about the sentiment...

    The ideal choice is that the Tory party hold up their promises to stop being London centric, failing miserably within a few weeks is hardly a great start.

    How can we be sure that HS2 gets finished and NPR doesn't get shelved?

    The whole reason this is being built is to satisfy the rentier class and an economy that is politically untenable, if the economy weren't so lopsided, there wouldn't be need for HS2 at all. This will do nothing but continue to agitate the majority of the country who will be negatively affected by stupid price rises they can't afford and an increasingly depressing life. Especially for those that inevitably move from London to gentrify the whole line.

    / :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  4. Malevolence

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 21, 2011

    Posts: 13,816

    Location: Miercna rīce

    You do realise that the Midlands isn't just Birmingham, right? What about here in Stoke-on-Trent? The entire thing bypasses us, yet we still have to pay for it.
     
  5. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 33,909

    Location: Co Durham

    I am sure I heard today on the radio an MP saying its a 10 to 20 year build?
     
  6. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 33,909

    Location: Co Durham

    I read the London to Birmingham bit is the most expensive and gives the worst return on every pound spent?
     
  7. Geodude97AD

    Gangster

    Joined: Jul 31, 2018

    Posts: 140

    The Bridge would be used by Boris as a means to justify the building of HS2. If the HS2 runs into the plus 200 billion or more mark it will throw the barnett formula into disarray. By building the bridge he can then argue the total cost of HS2 on the basis of an overall UK infrastructure wide spending.

    As far has N Ireland is concerned the only work need for a bridge is the bridge itself as a few years back a major road upgrade was carried out from Belfast to Larne and if Boris is into his major projects and is thinking ahead he is likely thinking about a rail link from Belfast to London by means of a duel motorway/rail link running from the bridge to Carlisle and then onto Newcastle. But yet again its likely Boris flopping his chops about what he thinks people wants to hear rather than what he intends to do.
     
  8. Spook187

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jan 16, 2010

    Posts: 8,122

    Location: Cumbria

    Main thing is keeps us in work to build it, although the north they keep banging on about does not stop at crewe Manchester and Leeds, idiot London bubble people :rolleyes:
     
  9. explicit4u

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 29, 2008

    Posts: 9,794

    Location: London

    Yes, hence mentioning another midlands station and the fact that the project is not primarily focused on having stations all around England. That defeats the point of a high speed service. As you mentioned, it's a massive bypass for one of the most congested routes in the country. Stoke, like all the other areas HS2 'bypasses' will benefit from increased capacity on 'classical compatible' trains and existing services.
     
  10. KiNgPiN83

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 16, 2003

    Posts: 3,893

    Location: Chatham

    So is there any scope to stopping people buying up earmarked hs2 land in the hope of selling it to the government for a higher price?

    I guess the route will spawn new stations and villages too? (Within reason I guess otherwise it just slows the train down?)

    Maybe I should just research it more.. haha!
     
  11. Orionaut

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 7,401

    That ship probably sailed a while ago.
     
  12. FishLicker

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 17, 2015

    Posts: 1,295

    I might have been in favour of it, if it had been for the benefit of more than about 1/3 of the country, but alas, anything north of Leeds, barely even in the north of england at all, is going to get little to no benefit, and continue to endure 3rd world services. As far as I can tell, all it’s for is to turn the large southern cities into commuter satellite cities for London.
     
  13. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,394

    HS2 going ahead is great news. The only caveat being we need to invite the Chinese to build it. They built a high speed rail line twice the length of HS2 and did so in 12 months not 20 years.
     
  14. Spook187

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jan 16, 2010

    Posts: 8,122

    Location: Cumbria

    Aye and fall to bits 12 months later.
     
  15. jpaul

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 9,598

    well Boris will be long gone before it's shown to be a white elephant, maybe the brexit squeeze will reduce the money available to execute it -
    Chinese steel ? what other resources does it use from abroad , or, more money will just be taken from the nhs , education ...

    They have lots of time to work out how they will convince people it was of economic/cultural benefit (like the TGV wasn't too) ... cognitive dissonance will carry it.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Hagar

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 7,725

    Location: Prev. Nkata Cheshire

    Labour manifesto committed to build HS2 all the way to Scotland.
     
  17. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 33,909

    Location: Co Durham

    Sailed a long time ago. Same with all the land around where the Birmingham station is going to be built. A lot of people gambled it would get passed 10, 15 years ago and bought cheaper and will know cream it in.
     
  18. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 24,338

    That would have been far better as a matter of sentiment towards anything north of the M25, what Boris is giving is a turd in comparison. If it's going to cost £100-200 billion... better ******* build the whole thing or it's worthless.
     
  19. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 33,909

    Location: Co Durham

    and was ridiculed for being too expensive and would bankrupt the country. So far BJ is trying spend just as much yet I don’t see anybody who was so anti labour saying a word of criticism?
     
  20. GAC

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 11, 2004

    Posts: 4,157

    the issue i have with it IF it happens now is how long it will take to get to manchester, talk of 2040 and beyond, honestly on that time table for a lot of us why even bother, this is why IT NEEDS to be built from all three end points from the get go. would probably save them money as well as wages and costs of materials will only go up over the years of the build.