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why all the hate for hs2?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 233, Jan 10, 2012.

  1. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,394

    I think what you wrote was quite implicit, though I'm sure that was your intention.

    I haven't seen anything to suggest their estimate isn't accurate - have you?
     
  2. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 46,003

    I wrote an open question. Have they built large scale rail projects in Europe previously?

    On what basis are they able to do this at a “much lower price”?
     
  3. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,394

    I think most intelligent people understood what your post implied.
     
  4. Rofflay

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 28, 2006

    Posts: 4,889

    Location: N Ireland

    I thought it was a joke but were not near April wtf the Chinese why lol... Thier construction feats are massively different to Europes first of all the moneys dodgy communist money and China use construction projects and cheap labour as some sort of economic engine and they pour all thier dirty state money into it. If they came to Europe they would not be able to threaten all the landowners, The health and safety is also way above what China is doing and the labour os no where near the same price? What will they do bring over the workers like they do in Africa? Yea good idea as soon as they see a gap in the fence they will be leaping it to claim asylum from that regime over there.


    Just no, And what an embarassment to mention anyone but a British company. And if there are no British companys capableof this feat well then shame on you for letting another skill die off. In the old days people would be coming to Britain for expertise in big projects now look at it dilly dallying over two railprojects just bloody build them instead the money will simply dissapear elsewhere and be forgotten. That is what we should do, Start the work right away on both the HS2 and NI Scotland bridge or scrap HS2 now and plan for a link between where HS2 was going but do it now to Glasgow or something and link up with the NI bridge and let us take a train to London for god sake. I would love it, I would take that train and go see the sights and landmarks around London instead of flying i would rather get off at each spot for a bit. That is 21st century green travel as well if done right.
     
  5. One More Solo

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2004

    Posts: 15,601

    Location: Manchester

    The Chinese idea is daft, but so is putting a 20 year timeline on this sort of project. Transport needs by 2040 could be radically different.
     
  6. Destination

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 31, 2009

    Posts: 19,545

    Agreed, one ******* railway, completed in 20 years, somehow saving a national economy.
    Its irrelevant in a modern society.
    I wonder how much 100Billion invested into a driverless electric car market would achieve, obviously not UK invested... as that result would simply be *****.
     
  7. chrcoluk

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 27, 2015

    Posts: 4,174

    My reasons.

    1 - It is very expensive, at a time when there is huge cost pressures elsewhere in government.
    2 - Any economic gains will be limited to the locations of the stops, there is limited stops e.g. it runs through Leicestershire, yet Leicestershire has no stops. Things that benefit the entire country or dont benefit London at all (to spread the wealth) I think would be better value.
    3 - Not only is it high cost, but the time for the project to be completed is insane.
    4 - Its 10+ years too late, HS2 is something that should have been built 20 years ago, thats when travelling quickly to meetings was important, now we have video conferences.
    5 - Other parts of the rail system have had funding removed to fund HS2. The cost of HS2 would be better spread around the existing rail system.

    I will never support projects of this size that have such limited local impact. For 10s of billions of pounds I would expect it to benefit much more cities.
     
  8. Rofflay

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 28, 2006

    Posts: 4,889

    Location: N Ireland

    Is there even a plan for a British Green vehicle? I bet not somone can prove me wrong but all our Goverments have no ambition, That died after Globalism and WW2. Since then it has been destruction of most expertise and brands all sold off and where is the finance and service sector when you need massive projects? Ah yes thier incapable of doing actual physical work.


    Onto that Green car, Look at the Volkwagon it was i believe made by the Nazi era German Goverment no? It was the kind of thing and people that i admired for thier ambition. They built the Volkwagon or peoples car and it was a fantastic thing like the Autobahn. Now imagine if Britain pumped 150bn into becoming a world leader in a small British electric car and exported them but used that money to subsidize the UK population. Think of the Mini the new Mini was sort of popular i can see one now at £9999 subsidized all electric. It is either this or trains they got to choose but people like me feel left behind.


    I have no train access, No green bus access only dirty Ulsterbus and i have no chance of paying 20k for an electric vehicle. So why did that happen whats the point of London and then having parts of the UK like that? The state of the kerbs and buildings as well on those routes there is a distinctly dark staining to all buildings and the kerbs because of the sheer amount of soot and pollution from exhausts. Just go wipe your finger around the inside of your car exhaust at home and that is what is sprayed on the roadside.
     
  9. stockhausen

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2006

    Posts: 10,380

    Sorry pal but Northern Ireland should just accept the inevitable and unite with Ireland.
     
  10. Rofflay

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 28, 2006

    Posts: 4,889

    Location: N Ireland

    Thier as bad with rural rail access as 30% of them live in Dublin. And it is offensive that you lot mention the end of my country over and over zzz, Where are you from would killing England for a EU province compare?


    Just stop talking bs.. No one can force that referendum period it will not happen and never could before.
     
  11. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 46,003

    So do you know or not?
     
  12. abbviper

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 31, 2004

    Posts: 442

    Location: Midlands

    This money would be better spent researching AI
     
  13. Murf

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 5,408

    Location: Newcastle

    Can't make heads or tails of this but I'm English, and would happily see England become an EU member state. :)

    HS2 is too little, too late. Massive investment in fibre to the premise for home working, further investment in faster internet connectivity for businesses and tactical investment in bypasses and re-opening of Beeching cut railway lines would make way more sense. HS2 will just turn Birmingham into a commuter town for London. I'd rather see improved links between Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds and Newcastle. As it stands if I need to be in London for a 9am meeting I can already manage that by getting the 4:44am train. :p

    Edit - Newcastle to Manchester is 146 miles. Fastest train is 2hrs 16mins. Newcastle to London, basically twice the distance at 277 miles is 2hrs 35mins. Ridiculous. Currently unless you're on a railway line running directly into or out of London it's likely to be slow, infrequent and using old rolling stock.
     
  14. VaderDSL

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 15,004

    Location: Manchester

    I live 30 miles away from Manchester, takes on average 1hr 30 minutes on the train, when it isn't cancelled.
     
  15. stockhausen

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2006

    Posts: 10,380

    I believe that the Broadband solution was suggested by Labour and rejected by many people.

    I dare say that the imaginative plan will be unveiled by Johnson and Cummings and the contract can be awarded to . . . . . Carphone Warehouse ;)
     
  16. Ocean Breeze

    Hitman

    Joined: Jul 1, 2009

    Posts: 707

    Location: Shropshire/Paris

    I already work from home two days a week and I foresee that only increasing.

    Also the AI revolution is just starting and there is going to be an awful lot of people not working in the future.

    I’m not against HS2 but we needed it 20 years ago. Really we need it now or not at all.
     
  17. Murf

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 5,408

    Location: Newcastle

    Yup, disgraceful. It's those kind of problems that need tackling. The infrastructure in and around major cities that aren't London. Improve the transport around cities, enabling people who live in towns to commute into their local city more efficiently. A good example locally is the proposal to re-open a line from Ashington to Newcastle via Blyth. As getting into Newcastle for people living in Ashington and Blyth is a much more pressing concern than how long it takes for their once in a blue moon trip to London.

    My entire team could work from home. We'll be moving offices soon and I'll be recommending it. Our office policy now for fit outs of new buildings is that an ever increasing percentage of staff will be working from home. It helps that we make software rather than pasties though! But I agree, the number of people working from home full time, or at least 1-2 days a week is only going to increase.
     
  18. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,688

    Location: Plymouth

    The North of England is blissful transport wise compared to the South West, and recieves massively more investment.
     
  19. Eurofighter

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Mar 20, 2014

    Posts: 1,501


    Probably because you drive a car.

    But anyway the north needs better railways. It will attract people to move away from the south east and spread out. Making the south east better for transport. (Including driving a car.)
     
  20. Murf

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 5,408

    Location: Newcastle

    Not according to this document, although I struggled to find it quoted on any news sites. It looks like IPPR North was the think tank that made a lot of noise about lack of investment in the north and the news sites just carried their analysis which didn't look at the midlands\south west etc. However, it does show that all regions barring London get a raw deal. I certainly wouldn't claim that it's only the north that is hard done by. I'd recommend funding of regional road and rail projects in all regions.