why all the hate for hs2?

I wonder how much quicker it will actually be and how much more expensive tickets will be, can they go much higher than they already are?!?
An awful lot of journey times actually end up worse as HS2 has significantly less stations so to catch it you land up taking a local service which negates the time savings anyway as the distance in the UK are so short!

If they had started in the north instead of building yet another London centric public transport system I think people may have been more convinced but realistically all this does is increase the London commuter belt and push house prices in those areas even higher.

I also think the money would have been better spent in regional rail services the cross country services in the north or England are laughable for one of the most developed countries in the world. Anyone who has ever attempted to commute the 30th miles between Sheffield and Manchester will attest to this! Yet the government sold off the purpose built tunnel that has been unused since the 60’s so an electricity company could save a few quid dragging cables!
 
This is the big challenge facing public transport in the UK the cost of driving and parking needs to be pushed up through taxation while public transport needs investment and subsidy but we sold it all off to private companies who just milk our national infrastructure while it decays.
 
This is the big challenge facing public transport in the UK the cost of driving and parking needs to be pushed up through taxation while public transport needs investment and subsidy but we sold it all off to private companies who just milk our national infrastructure while it decays.

Careful.
I already don't go into town at all really due to.

-time due to congestion
-parking charges

Pushing up charges to park will just push even more people into my position an you'll accelerate the death of the town centre




I agree. Local mass transit would be a better use Of this money. If I could walk 20-30 minutes. To a train station and pop into Cardiff I'd use it. It would probably help. Take a lot of commuting and pleasure traffic off the roads.


A line in the middle of the country? How many are going to make use of that? It'll be so expensive too. So that direct benefit will be for the wealthy.



£150bln per person this has cost.
It sounds worse when you use tangible numbers.

So 2.5k per person (Inc kids)
Or 6k per home.

Give a man 6k and he can have a free solar set up.
Give a man a 150bln vanity project and you'll give a man rage.
 
The HS2 rail line has been given an "unachievable" rating by an official watchdog.

It has been given a "red" warning for its first two phases - from London to Birmingham then onto Crewe - by the Infrastructure and Projects Authority.The project aims to create high-speed rail links between London and central and northern England, but has faced major delays and criticism. The government says it remains committed to delivering HS2.
Emphasis is my own, lost count of how many times that line is used meaning they almost certainly won't achieve target/completion of a project.
 
They will get something done then cancel the rest.

Fairly predictable government. They will end up with something that completely misses the point of it being done in the first place.

Mind you, it seemed very dodgy from the outset. How to help the North - get them on the train to the South. I'm pretty sure the money could have been better spent. Shouldn't be called HS2, should be called On Y'er Bike 2 - this persistent belief of Conservatives that the solution for all northerners is to move to London.
 
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They could have invested a fraction of that money into a national broadband rollout, instead of the absolute patchwork mess we have at the moment.

But the government believes all roads should lead to London, so what can you do?
 
For years it has been obvious that it wouldn't be completed, because the plan was unrealistic so now it costs way more than planned, and sooner or later someone would say enough is enough.

They should all be locked up and sent a bill.
 
For years it has been obvious that it wouldn't be completed, because the plan was unrealistic so now it costs way more than planned, and sooner or later someone would say enough is enough.

They should all be locked up and sent a bill.
The costs could still double or triple yet, for the bit they haven't (yet) cancelled.

HS2 - the first trillion $ white elephant?
 
I would be interested to know the sort of costs Germany have on maintaining their rail network. it's been a few years so things may have changed but last time I was there I went all across the country on train. the service was superb and the price was incredible (cheaper than driving that is for sure unlike here)

rather than HS2 I would rather just have a properly functioning entire network. push comes to shove the journey to London is already better than to most other places in the uk
 
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I would be interested to know the sort of costs Germany have on maintaining their rail network. it's been a few years so things may have changed but last time I was there I went all across the country on train. the service was superb and the price was incredible (cheaper than driving that is for sure unlike here)

rather than HS2 I would rather just have a properly functioning entire network. push comes to shove the journey to London is already better than to most other places in the uk

It’s low cost because it’s heavily subsidised by general taxation. Public transport doesn’t make money anywhere but other counties have realised the wider economic benefits of funding such systems and investing further in them.
 
I would be interested to know the sort of costs Germany have on maintaining their rail network. it's been a few years so things may have changed but last time I was there I went all across the country on train. the service was superb and the price was incredible (cheaper than driving that is for sure unlike here)

rather than HS2 I would rather just have a properly functioning entire network. push comes to shove the journey to London is already better than to most other places in the uk
One of the issues is, I believe Germany's rail network is on the whole much newer than ours (largely/completely rebuilt after the war for west germany, massive modernisation after reunification for east). so it's probably much cheaper to maintain than ours which in many areas is basically trying to maintain higher speeds over routes that were laid down over 100 years ago and really need to be rebuilt from scratch.

Another one is that IIRC Germany has many more interconnects between their lines, and additional parallel routes, which means it's far easier to actually do work without shutting everything down, which means they can do works that might shut down a length of track for weeks without it basically throwing the whole network into chaos. We don't have that ability so it's normal for us to do work overnight of which 2 hours might be pulling up the temporary stuff they did to let the trains run during the day, 3 hours might be actual progress, then another 2 hours might be making it so the trains can run (at reduced speeds) during the day. The result being that work that could be done in a week of 24/7 work if the line could be shut down takes months with the trains running slow that whole time.

This is what the likes of HS2 were meant to help with to a degree, as has been said many, many times, forget the nonsense about "saving a few minutes" it's an additional line that is completely new, which means that it increases the capacity of the network roughly in parallel with an existing much slower line. Once finished you could potentially do massive improvements to the other line with far less overall disruption.

We need dozens of "HS2's", not leave this one half finished if we actually want a public transport network that is working properly - I use the train for some trips and IF I can get a seat it's usually much more relaxing and comfortable than sitting in a car*, but we're so short of capacity that it's "normal" for many trains to have large numbers of passengers standing the whole trip, and that's before you take into account any disruption due to say a broken down train, maintenance, or a death on the line.
Our rail network is exceptionally fragile with almost no redundancy in the routes compared to most of Europe, let alone Japan or China (who are basically building the equivalent of both a motorway and A road network of rail, whilst we're basically running a single lane A road with only a handful of B roads).

Ironically if kept a rail building project that was constantly running rather than one "big" project every 25 years it would probably be far cheaper per mile because you'd have a pool of experienced people who would go from one job to another. and you'd get similar economies of scale to what you get with the road network.



*Most cars are definitely not intended for someone my height as a passenger.
 
Not surprised.
I've fumed at this colossal waste of money from the start.
First you can guarantee an gov projects will be 2x the estimate cost. And Hs2 has even blown that apart!

4k-5 per household spent on it. That's 4-5k could have given in a free grant to energy improvements for your house.

Or 100bln you could fund local infrastructure projects.

Or national broadband

Or green energy.


The list of better and achievable alternatives is long.
 
There is a podcast called "how to build a railway" that discusses the work that is actually being done to build HS2. It is worth a watch if you're curious as to what work they need to do to build this. If you are expecting to get some sort of justification for the cost or its benefits, you will be disappointed.

As much as I have just said that, from listening to this podcast I can see that there are clearly people making decisions that only focus on the benefits while ignoring the costs. As an example there is a type of machine (I think it is a piledriver) that is used in this project. They decided to retrofit all machines of this type in the country, regardless of age, to meet the latest emissions targets. The benefit of reducing emissions, and being more green is great but that is a lot of money to spend on a project that is already over budget.

They are investing money in all the communities that the line runs through. That's great but should it really be counted as part of the budget for HS2.

They really need to break this budget down to see how much things actually cost.
 
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Not surprised.
I've fumed at this colossal waste of money from the start.
First you can guarantee an gov projects will be 2x the estimate cost. And Hs2 has even blown that apart!

4k-5 per household spent on it. That's 4-5k could have given in a free grant to energy improvements for your house.

Or 100bln you could fund local infrastructure projects.

Or national broadband

Or green energy.


The list of better and achievable alternatives is long.

Fibre to every premises in the UK was only a few billion. I wish I could find the list somebody did with what the old £100bn would have bought but it included fibre, electrifying the whole northern rail network, improvements at every rail network bottle neck, insulating every house in the country etc etc.
 
Fibre to every premises in the UK was only a few billion. I wish I could find the list somebody did with what the old £100bn would have bought but it included fibre, electrifying the whole northern rail network, improvements at every rail network bottle neck, insulating every house in the country etc etc.

There are so many better uses of cash.

Scotland for some money from Hs2 because it was deemed to not benefit Scotland.
But some how Wales didn't. Such a scam.

What a waste of money on a headline grabber.
 
It’s low cost because it’s heavily subsidised by general taxation. Public transport doesn’t make money anywhere but other counties have realised the wider economic benefits of funding such systems and investing further in them.
Our rail network is massively subsidised by general taxation but instead of that money going into the service it goes into pockets of private operators who clear a profit every year for the share holders! The privatisation of the railways is one of the sickest jokes of recent history! A clever trick that the general public hasn’t noticed to once again transfer huge amounts of public money into private pockets!
 
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