Why are you not vegan....

[Johno please?]

Hey guys, (now ive got you with that title) so I went vegetarian about 9 months ago after struggling with the idea of eating meat for quite a while and have recently gone vegan after seeing footage of a cow get bolt gunned in the head.

I think the main problems are ignorance and cultural conditioning, I recently found that baby male chicks are either ground up alive or gassed at 1 day old because they're useless in the egg industry. And piglets have their teeth "trimmed" and tails "docked" to reduce tail biting amongst other pigs which is a symptom of mental stress, gee I wonder why they might be stressed....

So why are you not vegan....

Edited the title just due to the backlash

Documentary on UK farming - https://www.landofhopeandglory.org/

Document on the misery of broiler or "meat" birds https://www.rspca.org.uk/webContent/staticImages/BroilerCampaign/EatSitSufferRepeat.pdf

Common arguments debunked - https://www.carnismdebunked.com/general-ethical

 

[Johno please?]

I enjoy meat and as I eat a Keto diet I always aim to by responsibly farmed, grass pastured beef when I can get it.

Eggs are always organic and I try to buy from local farms where possible too.

I've accepted animals need to die for my diet, but I do try to get animals that have had some kind of reasonable life.

Shame a triggered meat eating mod has obviously moved this to GD for the lols but whatever.

I used to say the same things, unfortunately what you describe doesn't exist in reality. What chickens and pigs go through certainly doesn't constitute a reasonable life im afraid, sure outdoor bred pigs might have a slightly better life but this isnt the reality for most people. And you will no doubt eat at restaurants that most likely wont be using outdoor reared expensive pork and organic chickens.

Source - https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/pigs/keyissues

 

[Johno please?]

Not sure I could completely give up meat but I don't eat a lot. Grew up working on a dairy farm and my best mates parents owned a chicken farm that fattened 1000s of chicks in hot houses for Sun Valley and conditions especially for the chickens weren't great. I wish we had higher animal welfare standards. These are animals that feel fear and pain. Cows are surprisingly smart. At least our welfare standards are higher than the US and Australia, they are brutal in comparison.

Yea I grew up near a dairy farm. All the horrors were hidden though, like baby male calves being murdered straight away or left to suffocate in the dead mother or sold for veal.

Ours are not much better honestly, i've only managed about 10 minutes of the documentary 'land of hope and glory' which exposes the truths of UK farming. Can be watched here for anyone interested.

UK Animal Farming Free Documentary | Land of Hope and Glory

The hidden truth behind UK animal farming. Available to watch now for free.

www.landofhopeandglory.org

 

[Johno please?]

I know this is speakers corner but vegan memes seem highly appropriate right now.

Im really not easily offended by "bacon tho" comments. I was hoping to at least have a reasonble conversation but its been moved to GD for some reason.

 

[Johno please?]

Sad to see the predictable blind dismissal of a fairly fundamental issue in both animal rights and climate change, the usual childish quips and the jumping on the defensive without the ability to properly defend their stance.


Personally, i have removed about 95% of my meat and 60-70% of my dairy, and i am extremely selective of where and what meat & dairy i do buy. This has been a gradual process over the last 3 years but has now reached a level where i find most meat entirely unapatizing and i am frequently disappointed by the experience, so i suspect i will 100% vegetarian soon. On the dairy front, a lot is replaced such as milk and yoghurt, but cheese is a real problem, especially living in Switzerland. i have had poor experiences with vegan cheeses. I only use eggs for baking but need to experiment more with alternatives.

It is a shame yea but its what you're up against, and tbh, I do like such polarized topics, a lot of it comes from ignorance anyway and I would no doubt have said similar stupid stuff 5yrs ago.

Oh yea vegan cheese is a bit dodgy, I do miss Five Guys burgers, I still enjoy burgers anyways there just not made of cows.

Milk is so easy to replace, theres an abundance of plant milks now.

 

[Johno please?]

If you want to be a vegan, then that’s your choice, I accept it. But you need to reciprocate by accepting other people make their own choices and not preach about it like you’re bloody Frances of Assisi.

Oh right, if I like to kick dogs, thats ok then? Personal choice after all.

Your choices have a victim, that's what vegans take issue with.

 

[Johno please?]

It's one of the benefits of being top of the food chain.

But I would look to drastically cut back the amount of meat we as a world consume, based on the amount of resources and land it uses and the corresponding effect on climate change.

It's a mad statistic that 96% of the mammalian biomass on this planet is us and our livestock. 60% being the livestock.

Yea top of the food chain, until we enter a match with hippos/bears/lions or take a dip with a shark, then we're not so tough.

 

[Johno please?]

Your sig says it all really.

Grandson of farmers on my mother's side. Grandson of vegetarians on my father's side. I am agnostic and will sup with either.
My father's parents spoke at a world vegetarian conference held at Stonehouse Gloucestershire in the 1940's. They were quite strict in adherence as their cats were fed on marmite toast. But have you ever known a vegetarian cat?

My sigs a quote from Charlie Brooker.

They're obligate carnivore so no you wont find a vegan cat to my knowledge, there was a border collie who lived till 25 on a plant based diet tho, pretty amazing.

 

[Johno please?]

There's plenty of restaurants that will tell you exactly where they source their meat from.

Also an RSPCA link? Might want to look into their rescue animal euthanasia policy...

Yea I wouldnt support the RSPCA, they care very little when it comes to "livestock" but facts are facts.

 

[Johno please?]

Meat has most of what I need to survive and quite frankly, I like it. Every vegan I know looks sickly.

I don't approve of the methods in which animals are treated though. I don't really have a choice of where my meat comes from or treated unless the packaging is telling me.

I can't fight every battle in life. If you feel like it's a battle for you to make a change, then go for it.

Plant based diets have everything you need to survive, except B12.

I work out doing heavy weights 3 times a week. im not skinny or sickly. Theres also people like 'Hench Herbivore' and 'Lifting Vegan Logic'. All those are probably stronger than the people posting in this thread who eat meat.

 

[Johno please?]

9 months of being a vegetarian and a few weeks of being a vegan then openly attacking others for their choices they've made, the same one that OP had done for decades?

Really? Does a few months of this buy you such a high horse? What about other things people have done in their life that benefits society? Can a heart surgeon eat a burger per child saved on the table? You going to have a pop at Mother Teresa not being a vegan?

Pleaseeeeeee, there is so much hypocrisy here.

Mother Teresa was a ****, I thought that was common knowledge?

Im not attacking anyone, Ive already said I used to make the same excuses. It was a click baity title to get the conversation going in speakers corner, someone moved it here. People have been triggered tho.

 

[Johno please?]

I imagine what you are describing is worse case scenario. We saw some lovely looking pig farms near Sutton Hoo. My wife described it as glamping for pigs!

I pretty much only eat free range meat, which is enough to assuage my conscience.
I have no plans to stop eating meat, but would prefer that the animals are treated as kindly as possible before slaughter.

I said exactly this. I stopped eating factory farmed meat, so that pretty much left me eating free range chicken. I met some pigs last year while 'glamping' funnily enough and that was it for me, I only truly found out the horrors of the meat and
dairy industry while doing some more research.

Its not isolated cases that happens elsewhere it happens here and its industry standard practices, most pigs and chickens that people eat will not have had anything like a kind or reasonable existence, if you're really interested in the facts try watching this. Its all filmed in UK farms... https://www.landofhopeandglory.org/

 

[Johno please?]

How are you only just realising this? Yes, only the female ones lay eggs. Likewise, what do you think happens to most bull calves given they can't produce milk?

Are there really lots of people out there who'd otherwise be vegetarians or vegans but somehow don't know about baby male cows, chicks etc.?

I doesn't seem like it will take too long for lab-grown meat to become popular so I suspect vegans and vegetarians will become rarer in the future.

Not a single friend or family member has known about "useless" male chicks or pigs being gassed to death when ive brought it up in conversation.

I do agree tho, lab meat will hopefully replace tortured animals.

 

[Johno please?]

I actually did hear about that but was waiting for you to fall into that trap...too predictable!

You are attacking people, this thread is, you are purposely looking for confrontation. How about you have a word with yourself? Does going vegan allow you be being nasty to others?

And I ask again, does a few weeks of vegan wash off decades of your sin? Does it?

Who have I attacked (except that grifter mother teresa)

 

[Johno please?]

But if you give up meat, aren't you still effectively killing animals by not allowing them to be born on the first place to be used for meat/dairy?

Also why don't vegans like milk?

You cant kill something that doesn't exist can you....

A little excerpt from the below article....

"When she gives birth, her calf will typically be removed within 36 hours, so the farmers can steal and sell you the milk that is meant for her baby. Wildlife experts say that a strong bond between cow and calf is formed quickly after birth. Following that callous separation, the mother will bellow and scream for days, wondering where her baby is. The answer depends on the gender of the calf. If male, he will probably either be shot and tossed into a bin, or sold to be raised for veal, which delays his death by just a matter of months. But if the calf is female, she will usually be prepared for her own entry into dairy production, where she will face the same cycle of hell that her mother is trapped in: forced impregnation, the theft of her baby, and a return to the cattle crush two or three months later."

Dairy is scary. The public are waking up to the darkest part of farming | Chas Newkey-Burden

The photo of calves in cramped pens will shock many, and with so many non-dairy alternatives now, consumers have a choice

www.theguardian.com

 

[Johno please?]

The title is an attack on everyone who eats meat.

Its just a fact though....

 

[Johno please?]

Just to be clear - this wasn't a single mods decision but it went to a discussion within the team first.

Your OP and title were inflammatory, designed purely to provoke a reaction rather than debate. That's not an SC worthy thread and thus moved to GD.

The farm I buy my pork from neither docks tails or chips / files teeth. They allow their pigs 100% access to the outside to graze naturally. I researched where I buy my meat from and although it costs more, the flavour is much better and I truly believe the farmers when they say the welfare is better.

Ok. Are facts inflammatory?

That's something I guess.... but they still end up being gassed where they thrash about while suffocating. Maybe the pigs you buy just get the old stun and throat cut.

Slaughterhouse pigs choke on gas meant to stun them

Millions of pigs are suffering “poor welfare” at slaughterhouses from the gas used to stun and kill them, according to a government report recommending that a

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[Johno please?]

And if your diet includes avocados, chocolate, coffee, anything containing palm oil - you are just as bad if not worse

I try hard not to consume palm oil. I occasionally eat dark chocolate. (Tonys brand) and guacamole. Veganism is about excluding the harm to animals as far as possible, not about completely eliminating harm to the environment.

I wouldn't expect some eskimos living in the middle of nowhere to go vegan for example.

 

[Johno please?]

Facts are not, but how you word them (and also a lot of the responses from meat eaters) are.

Judging by some responses people know even less than I thought. I also Fixed it for you....

 

[Johno please?]

Someone somewhere is having a go at your morals for harming the environment. You are just cherry-picking the difference between animal and environment. It's not like animals can survive without their environment, is it?

"If you eat chocolate and palm oil you are destroying the planet".

Facts right?

Palm oil is indeed devastating to the enviroment and animals, like I said, I probably havent eaten palm oil this week or even month, because most of the time its in with animal products.