Eating just meat is not unhealthy that is our species specific diet, eating just plants on the other hand..
Funny how you comment on the health aspect of my comment but not on N14/15 isotope testing or Gluconeogenesis..
Why are you not vegan....
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Funny how you comment on the health aspect of my comment but not on N14/15 isotope testing or Gluconeogenesis..
Soldato
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I've just looked this up and sounds really nice, will have to give it a try.Pasta e Ceci
No it really isn't. We are not carnivores.
Soldato
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Neanderthals had an almost entirely meat based diet, theres almost nothing else to eat on the arctic tundra, Inuit are/were the same.
We're not Neanderthals though... They're a separate sub species.
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Modern humans of european/asian and australian origin are descendants of Neanderthals, we all have neanderthal dna.
The N14/15 isotope testing proves different sorry...
Why are you sorry? Or are you just lying about being sorry?
Nitrogen isotope testing proves that humans at least as far back as the mesolithic ate meat (which wasn't disputed anyway). It doesn't prove that humans in the past ate only meat. Your claim that humans are obligate carnivores certainly isn't backed up by nitrogen isotope analysis. Or any other science.
I never claimed Homo Sapiens ate only meat, The classification of a carnivore does not need be 100% meat.
A hyper carnivore is classed as 70%+ thus rebutting 200sols claim we are not carnivores the isotope testing proves otherwise.
I am sorry as this is factual we have always ate meat.
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That's because I don't know anything about N14/15 isotope testing. Feel free to enlighten me....
Cmon, You know eating just meat is not our species specific diet, even our ancestors didn't live on just meat.
We are omnivores. Yes we eat meat, no we aren't carnivores.
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Have you read any of the literally thousands of journal entries by Oxford alone on this? (not sure why you're citing one university anyway, it's not Oxford's strongest discipline - plenty from Harvard, Cambridge and dozens of others) - to cite a few of the recent ones. Increased hormone disruption, lack of haemoglobin, reduction in omega 3, vitamin B12 deficiency, inhibited zinc absorption, carbohydrate over-concentration, increased risk of stroke, calcium deficiencies, high heavy metal intake. Vitamin D intake is usually 25% that of omnivores. It's also telling that in many of these studies the plant-based sources fail to have many of the health benefits (eg Omega 3 from plants doesn't have the impact that fish-based sources have). Most interesting from most of these studies is how centred they are on neurological impacts - given evolutionary theory posits that meat eating is what grew the pre-human brain - taking it away causes permanent neurological damage (if B12 deficiencies persist), increased stroke risk (general vegan diet), EPA/DHA deficiencies damage eye and brain function etc.
Don't get me wrong, being a vegan has advantages too (although these largely vanish when we retrench the data against historical trends - ie we've stopped eating as many grains, fruit and veg rather than we've started eating meat) - but every health service on the planet suggests fortified food, vitamin supplements and multiple workaround solutions for a vegan diet to have long term balance, which results in far too much processed food for my liking and it certainly isn't a 'natural' diet.
I have no idea where you're drawing this from - neuroscience has spent decades seeking to understand the concept of pain and still can't define, but it's great that you've solved it...
At no point have I or any neuroscientist claimed animals don't feel pain - we've said the concept of pain is complex. At a first year neuroscience level 'pain' is measured through:- nociception
- stress neurobiology
- neurotag/pain memory
- beliefs/previous memory
- cortical plasticity
- descending modulation
- neuroimmunity
- central sensitisation
- peripheral sensitisation
Then all the above have to play through the various centres of the brain to create a concept of pain.
Even at a human level this is illogical - hence Nobel Prize winners have observed that colonoscopies were deemed less 'painful' when a smaller probe was inserted into the patient's rectum after the larger one > ie clearly more pain inflicted, but less pain observed. When humans eat hot chillis they trigger pain receptors, despite absolutely no actual pain being inflicted on us (it's an odd miswiring of mammals, hence birds can eat the hottest chillis without any pain). Why is it you can't feel pain when adrenaline is rushing - hence a lot of wartime deaths are actually pretty painless (countless accounts of people's legs being ripped off and genuinely not realising/feeling pain, yet when you calm down it becomes agony). I can go on and on with examples, but this is only humans - so when statements 'animals feel pain' are made, it's wildly different to your anthropomorphised assumption.
My point is improve farms, don't stop meat - much like someone saying 'stop driving' is the solution to car accidents, rather than 'improve cars'
Anyway, enjoy the veg - I like having data on my side, after all.... 84% of vegetarians/vegans start eating meat again... so odds are with me...
Educate yourself a little and look into it.
What did our ancestors live on all those years ago besides meat then?
You state this as its a choice to eat meat, Homo Sapiens has survived for so long because we ate meat not in spite of it hence we are carnivores..
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Before we discovered farming, our diet is mostly meat and berries. We could not get enough grain in the wild to sustain a person for long, nevermind a family or a village. Hunting a deer will feed a small community and it would be much easier to do vs trying to find 10,000 rice plants.
The best guess is that humans appear between 5 million to 7 million years ago, we only begun farming about 10,000 years ago. That's a VERY small percentage. Veganism only fond traction in the west for less time than I've had my PS4. I mean their society only begun in 1951.
Our bodies don't adapt in a single generation to an all plant based diet, evolution don't work that way, forcing it will just make you ill. You can do it but you are going to need to eat VERY carefully and take lots of fortified stuff (processed food) and supplements.
The best guess is that humans appear between 5 million to 7 million years ago, we only begun farming about 10,000 years ago. That's a VERY small percentage. Veganism only fond traction in the west for less time than I've had my PS4. I mean their society only begun in 1951.
Our bodies don't adapt in a single generation to an all plant based diet, evolution don't work that way, forcing it will just make you ill. You can do it but you are going to need to eat VERY carefully and take lots of fortified stuff (processed food) and supplements.
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you really don’t need to eat very carefully, nor do you have to eat lots of processed foods. You just have to be aware of what you’re eating. Which you should be when you are eating anything.
It’s really not difficult for the majority of the population. People like @LiE who needs extra because of his lifestyle may struggle, and if you don’t like veg you’ll struggle, but for most people you’ll be fine.
My missus gets b12 checks and iron checks from time to time and her levels are fine. She’s been vegan for years and doesn’t take any supplements.
Let’s be honest, I doubt the non vegans are eating everything they should be and getting all the nutrients they are meant to be. I find it a bit rich for them to criticise.
Just done the next weeks meal plan:
Banana blossom mushy peas & chips
Drunken noodles
Ful medames
Salt n pepper tofu
Naan tikka pizza
Goulash n dumplings
Potato n pickle upside down pie
Butternut squash carbonara with sage
Miso roasted cauliflower, chickpea carrot n noodle salad
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I think the point they're making is not focused on half-range anecdote - rather longer and broader range meta-analyses. ie my gran smoked heavily all her life and she never had health problems, ergo smoking is perfectly healthy....!
Caporegime
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I don't do meal plans...lol I haven't even decided what i am having tonight and it's 8pm!
My lifestyle, well, I choose not to really think too hard to what i eat. Because my craving tends to be a balance of bit of everything. Sometimes I crave peas so bad that i will cook bowl and eat them without anything else. Sometimes I want a bit of chicken, I rarely crave beef. I would get some fruit few days a week. If i am really lazy i would put some oven chips in the air fryer.
p.s. You deleted the bit about 5 million years of human existence but only 70 years of farming...i guess you agree with that bit?
My lifestyle, well, I choose not to really think too hard to what i eat. Because my craving tends to be a balance of bit of everything. Sometimes I crave peas so bad that i will cook bowl and eat them without anything else. Sometimes I want a bit of chicken, I rarely crave beef. I would get some fruit few days a week. If i am really lazy i would put some oven chips in the air fryer.
p.s. You deleted the bit about 5 million years of human existence but only 70 years of farming...i guess you agree with that bit?
Caporegime
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Which is what I have been trying to suggest with the Japanese and Med diet. No matter what study you throw at me, it's NEVER going to be that large a sample size.
No, they are talking about themselves and opinion. Beyond some weird isotope conversation which doesn’t sound relevant they aren’t posting any facts. Probably because the studies haven’t been done!
I’d suggest the average vegan diet is healthier and more balanced than the average non vegan diet. Probably because they care more about what they are eating. However, there’ll be outliers on both sides. I know what my friends eat generally, and I know I eat more veg, more nuts, more fibre, more oil, more pulses, more legume’s. I accept I eat less meat and fish though.
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