Why are you not vegan....

[Raymond Lin]

No, they are talking about themselves and opinion. Beyond some weird isotope conversation which doesn’t sound relevant they aren’t posting any facts. Probably because the studies haven’t been done!

I’d suggest the average vegan diet is healthier and more balanced than the average non vegan diet. Probably because they care more about what they are eating. However, there’ll be outliers on both sides. I know what my friends eat generally, and I know I eat more veg, more nuts, more fibre, more oil, more pulses, more legume’s. I accept I eat less meat and fish though.

"I’d suggest the average vegan diet is healthier and more balanced than the average non vegan diet."

That sentence, in the UK and America perhaps...not everywhere.

 

[Ahleckz]

I don't do meal plans...lol I haven't even decided what i am having tonight and it's 8pm!

My lifestyle, well, I choose not to really think too hard to what i eat. Because my craving tends to be a balance of bit of everything. Sometimes I crave peas so bad that i will cook bowl and eat them without anything else. Sometimes I want a bit of chicken, I rarely crave beef. I would get some fruit few days a week. If i am really lazy i would put some oven chips in the air fryer.

p.s. You deleted the bit about 5 million years of human existence but only 70 years of farming...i guess you agree with that bit?

Hah! You’ve spent ages telling everyone the vegan diet isn’t healthy, and you have oven chips and a bowl of peas for dinner. Gotcha!

I’m not a historian and don’t know, nor really care, when we started farming. Your argument seems to be that we didn’t farm therefore we didn’t eat veg. I don’t think that’s true. But, I’m not sure what relevance it has now.

 

[Ahleckz]

’d suggest the average vegan diet is healthier and more balanced than the average non vegan diet.

That sentence, in the UK and American perhaps...not everywhere.

I’d probably agree with that, but we are in the UK you know…

As an aside, you should go to Japan with a veggie/vegan. you’ll get to eat loads of extras! Trying to ask the tonkatsu chef if we can have one portion without the meat and just rice and sauce was met with a confused look, and a plate of meat, rice and sauce. Was fine for me, double meat!

 

[katie279]

No, they are talking about themselves and opinion. Beyond some weird isotope conversation which doesn’t sound relevant they aren’t posting any facts. Probably because the studies haven’t been done!

I’d suggest the average vegan diet is healthier and more balanced than the average non vegan diet. Probably because they care more about what they are eating. However, there’ll be outliers on both sides. I know what my friends eat generally, and I know I eat more veg, more nuts, more fibre, more oil, more pulses, more legume’s. I accept I eat less meat and fish though.

Yes, spot on - this is one of the hardest things about even huge scale meta-analyses - the inherent bias is very hard to control for. Eg much like Atkins diet, paleo diet etc - the fact people are doing it shows they are 'health conscious' even if misguided and the actual diet is unhealthy, it's very difficult to detangle the fact they'll inevitably exercise more, drink less wildly etc etc.

I'd agree your point though - the mean vegan diet is likely therefore more healthy than the mean omnivore diet, however the optimal vegan diet is also less healthy than the optimal omnivore diet - and this is where the less mathematically-able folks get lost...

 

[Raymond Lin]

I’d probably agree with that, but we are in the UK you know…

As an aside, you should go to Japan with a veggie/vegan. you’ll get to eat loads of extras! Trying to ask the tonkatsu chef if we can have one portion without the meat and just rice and sauce was met with a confused look, and a plate of meat, rice and sauce. Was fine for me!

I know, or there is a high possiblity of them say "ahhh that's going to be difficult", which is their way of saying "No, we don't cater for that, you can't go off script", but they are too polite to say no.

 

[katie279]

Hah! You’ve spent ages telling everyone the vegan diet isn’t healthy, and you have oven chips and a bowl of peas for dinner. Gotcha!

I’m not a historian and don’t know, nor really care, when we started farming. Your argument seems to be that we didn’t farm therefore we didn’t eat veg. I don’t think that’s true. But, I’m not sure what relevance it has now.

The point I think he's trying to make is that biological adaptation and genetic selection has been running for 10,000 years+ so it fundamentally affects what is 'good' for us.

Example:
- Japan learnt to preserve food early with salt
- Indo-europeans learnt to preserve food with alcohol

To this day, Japanese people cannot process the same amount of alcohol, we struggle with high salt - you are living embodiment of the diet your ancestors ate - you are tuned to the past, not the future.

 

[Raymond Lin]

The point I think he's trying to make is that biological adaptation and genetic selection has been running for 10,000 years+ so it fundamentally affects what is 'good' for us.

Example:
- Japan learnt to preserve food early with salt
- Indo-europeans learnt to preserve food with alcohol

To this day, Japanese people cannot process the same amount of alcohol, we struggle with high salt - you are living embodiment of the diet your ancestors ate - you are tuned to the past, not the future.

And northern Europeans, due to the cooler climate, can eat milk and diary, where as the southern Europeans (and Asians) are more lactose intolerant, or lower intolerance to it).

 

[pooley]

No, they are talking about themselves and opinion. Beyond some weird isotope conversation which doesn’t sound relevant they aren’t posting any facts. Probably because the studies haven’t been done!

I’d suggest the average vegan diet is healthier and more balanced than the average non vegan diet. Probably because they care more about what they are eating. However, there’ll be outliers on both sides. I know what my friends eat generally, and I know I eat more veg, more nuts, more fibre, more oil, more pulses, more legume’s. I accept I eat less meat and fish though.

He is where you show your ignorance, the testing has been done it is unequivocal..

 

[katie279]

And northern Europeans, due to the cooler climate, can eat milk and diary, where as the southern Europeans (and Asians) are more lactose intolerant, or lower intolerance to it).

Exactly - there's thousands of variances - although just remember we are the very strange ones. I mean, think of cheese - it's more understandable that eastern cultures DIDN'T discover it, than the drunken European party that must have involved: grabbing a cow's ****, pulling them until milk is squirted out, leave that milk to go off, let bacteria and mold grow over it, then dare someone to eat it...

 

[Devilman]

No, they are talking about themselves and opinion. Beyond some weird isotope conversation which doesn’t sound relevant they aren’t posting any facts. Probably because the studies haven’t been done!

I’d suggest the average vegan diet is healthier and more balanced than the average non vegan diet. Probably because they care more about what they are eating. However, there’ll be outliers on both sides. I know what my friends eat generally, and I know I eat more veg, more nuts, more fibre, more oil, more pulses, more legume’s. I accept I eat less meat and fish though.

Posting that people are talking about themselves and opinion, only to follow it with what is nothing more than your opinion and talking about yourself / friends you know...

Well, that's quite a thing isn't it?

 

[Ahleckz]

I do hope the irony of posting that people are talking about themselves and opinion, only to follow it with this..."I’d suggest the average vegan diet is healthier and more balanced than the average non vegan diet." which is nothing more than your opinion, is not lost on you

Go on then, what are you eating this week? And would you consider yourself to eat an average diet?

 

[Devilman]

Go on then, what are you eating this week?

What exactly does this strawman accomplish?
You complained that people were posting "opinions" and then you followed it with nothing more than your own opinion. Your retort? You attempt to construct a strawman about what I choose to eat this week.

 

[Angilion]

I never claimed Homo Sapiens ate only meat,

You stated (in post number 1441 in this thread) that eating just meat is the correct diet for humans. I think I'm justified in assuming that when you wrote "our species" you were referring to humans.

Eating just meat is not unhealthy that is our species specific diet [..]

The classification of a carnivore does not need be 100% meat.
A hyper carnivore is classed as 70%+ thus rebutting 200sols claim we are not carnivores the isotope testing proves otherwise.
I am sorry as this is factual we have always ate meat.

If you're sorry so often, why do you keep acting the way you do, the way that makes you sorry? If you can't stop doing it by yourself, seek help.

One part of your post has piqued my curiousity...if there's a classification of "hyper carnivore" are there are others such as "mega carnivore" and "super carnivore"? I'll take a look...

Ah, good old Wikipedia contradicts itself again. On one page it defines "hypercarnivore" as a synonym for "obligate carnivore", which is an organism that is wholly reliant on eating animals and which can't digest plants. On a different page it gives the 70% figure you use. However, I can't find any indication of there being an official classification and the 70% figure is based on behaviour rather than any aspect of biology. By that standard, most humans are herbivores and many are hyperherbivores.

 

[Ahleckz]

What exactly does this strawman accomplish?
You complained that people were posting "opinions" and then you followed it with nothing more than your own opinion. Your retort? You attempt to construct a strawman about what I choose to eat this week.

When did I complain?

What do you eat? You haven’t disproved my opinion.

 

[Devilman]

One part of your post has piqued my curiousity...if there's a classification of "hyper carnivore" are there are others such as "mega carnivore" and "super carnivore"? I'll take a look...

Well, we do have this gem...

the super pro meat bros.

 

[Angilion]

No, they are talking about themselves and opinion. Beyond some weird isotope conversation which doesn’t sound relevant they aren’t posting any facts. Probably because the studies haven’t been done!

I’d suggest the average vegan diet is healthier and more balanced than the average non vegan diet. Probably because they care more about what they are eating. [..]

While that might currently be true, I think the second part is key. A vegan has to care more what what they're eating in order to be sure that it is vegan. Until very recently, vegans also had to prepare most if not all of their own food from raw ingredients. That's an extremely relevant difference. I doubt if a vegan diet is healthier with a like for like comparison than an omnivorous diet, given that humans are physiologically adapted to an omnivorous diet.

 

[Devilman]

When did I complain?

What do you eat? You haven’t disproved my opinion.

Your opinion was that the average vegan diet is healthier than the average non-vegan diet. Since when is a sample size of 1 (me) representative of any kind of average? You need multiple data points to create an average.

All you are attempting to do is distract from your hypocrisy of whining about people posting their opinion, while following it up with exacting the same, your opinion. No facts, No evidence.... Just opinion.

When this was pointed out to you, rather than acknowledging that you were in fact doing exact that which you were complaining about (People posting opinions with no facts / evidence to back it up) you instead looked to attack my diet as a way of turning around and saying "HA! see, I told you!" when the single data point from my diet alone is not remotely representative of an average of anything.

This is not an "I win, you Lose" scenario and this is precisely the problem with vegans. You do not "convert" people (Or even convince them your opinion may be correct) by trying to demean them, belittle them, talk down to them or act like you're morally superior to them.

 

[builder22]

wait wait wait...'you are what you eat'...cows eat grass...therefore beefburgers are vegan

 

[Angilion]

Educate yourself a little and look into it.

I'm not the person you were replying to, but I did look into the relevance of nitrogen isotopes to human diet. None of the material I found supports your position. All of the material I found refutes your position.

The fact that you refuse to provide your sources even when directly asked to do so very strongly implies that you already knew that they don't support your position.

What did our ancestors live on all those years ago besides meat then?

Plants. Hardly any of the world was built over by humans until relatively recently, so wild plants grew almost everywhere. Humans learned which parts of which plants they could eat and in some cases how they needed to process certain parts of certain plants to make them safe to eat. You might find it interesting to look into it, especially the last part as that's what seperates humans from other foraging animals. For example, cassava is a widely eaten nutritious plant but it contains cyanide and can contain enough cyanide to be a serious risk. Various methods were developed by various groups of people to make it safe to eat.

It's likely that most of the calories consumed by paleolithic and mesolithic humans came from plants. Meat was essential to them, absolutely a life or death thing, but with the technology they had back then it wouldn't have been possible to hunt, transport and preserve large amounts of meat. Probably not enough to account for >50% of calories consumed. If you know what you're doing (and they would have had to) and you're in a mostly wild area with only a sparse human population with very little building (as everywhere was back then), gathering edible plants would yield more calories.

 

[Ahleckz]

Your opinion was that the average vegan diet is healthier than the average non-vegan diet. Since when is a sample size of 1 (me) representative of any kind of average? You need multiple data points to create an average.

All you are attempting to do is distract from your hypocrisy of whining about people posting their opinion, while following it up with exacting the same, your opinion. No facts, No evidence.... Just opinion.

When this was pointed out to you, rather than acknowledging that you were in fact doing exact that which you were complaining about (People posting opinions with no facts / evidence to back it up) you instead looked to attack my diet as a way of turning around and saying "HA! see, I told you!" when the single data point from my diet alone is not remotely representative of an average of anything.

This is not an "I win, you Lose" scenario and this is precisely the problem with vegans. You do not "convert" people (Or even convince them your opinion may be correct) by trying to demean them, belittle them, talk down to them or act like you're morally superior to them.

We aren’t allowed to post our opinion, based on our own spheres nowadays? Everything we say must be cited and peer reviewed?
I said I doubt the studies had been done, so in the absence of these I was discussing my own personal experience as others had also been doing. I wasn’t complaining, I was pointing out a fact.

Also, if you bothered to read the thread, I’m not a vegan and I’m not trying to convert or belittle anyone. Try again.