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Will Ryzen 6000 CPUs be based on the N6 fab process (Warhol chip) and release in 2021?
- Thread starter g67575
- Start date
That may be true, however it does so sounds rather short-term thinking.
Which is no surprise from the stock market and shareholders blindly chasing margins as it's an easy metric for analysts who maybe don't understand the market and certainly never think long-term.
In the end profit is determined by both margins and volume. Since the fixed-cost of design and tapeout are, well, fixed it really makes no sense to obsess only about margins.
I know few years AMD had to write off a lot of inventory, but since then i believe they've become too cautious. By blindly* chasing margins, they ignoring the high volume, lower margin stuff (except consoles** of course).
However, the trend for the last few years in semiconductors has been that as nodes get smaller, the cost of designing and taping out design has gone crazy as it's not just the wafers which have become expensive.
The obvious thing then, is to have decent volumes, and this is where I think AMD have been making big mistakes and not just with Ryzen.
One product which stick out recently is the 12nm shrink of Polaris 30 which was only used for the Radeon 590. Since the respin and masks were a fixed costs, why did they only do a low volume 590 part and no 575 and 465 (disable cores, run at a lower clock to gain a lot of perf/watt) part?
While the 7nm stuff is limited by TSMC wafers (which are mainly being used for low margin consoles), why did are they not using GF to make Athlon parts like the APUs at lower margins?
Most of the answers to the above are the short-term thinking which analyists and the stockmarket encourage.
*Or chasing them to please stock market analysts.
** Yet, upto 80% of AMD's TSMC 7nm wafer allocation is going to consoles.
Maybe you could try to find where you read that, it sounds interesting.
I think they will probably stick with AM4, but with a 'new' fab. process like TSMC 6N. That would give them ~20% transistor density improvement vs 7nm Ryzen. Or, it could use the very similar 7nm+ (EUV) instead, which is what the delayed 3rd gen. server products (Milan EPYC) will apparently utilize. That will should give them a large enough perf. improvement to equal or exceed Rocket Lake processors (which offer a 19% IPC improvement vs Skylake gen 1 CPUs).
Probably not DDR5 on Ryzen 6000 unfortunately. AMD does not need to compete with Alder Lake DDR5 systems until they release in 2022, I think 1 year after Rocket Lake releases next month.
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Soldato
I wonder how much power these will draw?
Don
I think Warhol is more likely to be a zen3 refresh on am5 with ddr5.
It wouldn't alienate existing customers as wouldn't be much of an improvement, but allows manufacturers to sell new shiny motherboards, and ram manufacturers to transition fully to ddr5 production.
Zen4 would then launch on an established platform, hopefully with all niggles launched out, rather than trying to launch a new platform and CPU range at the same time.
It wouldn't alienate existing customers as wouldn't be much of an improvement, but allows manufacturers to sell new shiny motherboards, and ram manufacturers to transition fully to ddr5 production.
Zen4 would then launch on an established platform, hopefully with all niggles launched out, rather than trying to launch a new platform and CPU range at the same time.
Whatever chip is used for Ryzen 6000, be it Zen 3 (refreshed), 'Zen 3+', or Zen 4, AMD has no intention of making any statements about it yet. they'd rather talk about 2022 and beyond. Afterall, the 5600x and 5800x are doing very well, AMD is making more net profit than they have in a long time (ever?).
To me, this lack of AMD statements / official roadmaps for 2021 doesn't seem like a positive thing. They mention 2022 I think, because the technology isn't ready yet, Milan (Zen 3 + DDR4 based, planned for 2020) is due to be released quite soon.
In fact, it looks like AMD wants to focus on releasing mobile products and improving chip production capacity in the 1st half of 2021.
A 5.3ghz (boost) 8 core Rocket lake is only 2-8% faster than a 4.8ghz (boost) 12 core Ryzen 5000 CPU in games according to a CES Intel slide:
I notice a (likely) deliberate absence of XT products in the current Ryzen 5000 line-up, which were a part of the Ryzen 3000 series. I think AMD will simply release (about 10%) overclocked versions of the 5600X, 5800X and 5900X to compete with Rocket Lake, maybe with extra L3 cache if necessary. So, that would put them at 5.0ghz or above.
Clock for clock, the Ryzen 5000 series appears to still be (slightly) ahead of Rocket Lake in terms of IPC, so I think overclocked versions would make sense.
To me, this lack of AMD statements / official roadmaps for 2021 doesn't seem like a positive thing. They mention 2022 I think, because the technology isn't ready yet, Milan (Zen 3 + DDR4 based, planned for 2020) is due to be released quite soon.
In fact, it looks like AMD wants to focus on releasing mobile products and improving chip production capacity in the 1st half of 2021.
A 5.3ghz (boost) 8 core Rocket lake is only 2-8% faster than a 4.8ghz (boost) 12 core Ryzen 5000 CPU in games according to a CES Intel slide:
I notice a (likely) deliberate absence of XT products in the current Ryzen 5000 line-up, which were a part of the Ryzen 3000 series. I think AMD will simply release (about 10%) overclocked versions of the 5600X, 5800X and 5900X to compete with Rocket Lake, maybe with extra L3 cache if necessary. So, that would put them at 5.0ghz or above.
Clock for clock, the Ryzen 5000 series appears to still be (slightly) ahead of Rocket Lake in terms of IPC, so I think overclocked versions would make sense.
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Caporegime
From the Rocket Lake thread. the 11700 appears to be behind the 5800X, Including games, the 11700 boosts to 4.9Ghz, the 5800X to 4.85Ghz.
The Top SKU (11900K) boosts to 5.2Ghz, +5%
Keep in mind that Dirt 5 is massively magnified, the actual performance difference is less than 3% to the 11700. Its the only game where the 11700 beats the 5800X, and the only slide he's magnified massively...
The Top SKU (11900K) boosts to 5.2Ghz, +5%
Keep in mind that Dirt 5 is massively magnified, the actual performance difference is less than 3% to the 11700. Its the only game where the 11700 beats the 5800X, and the only slide he's magnified massively...
From the Rocket Lake thread. the 11700 appears to be behind the 5800X, Including games, the 11700 boosts to 4.9Ghz, the 5800X to 4.85Ghz.
The Top SKU (11900K) boosts to 5.2Ghz, +5%
Keep in mind that Dirt 5 is massively magnified, the actual performance difference is less than 3% to the 11700. Its the only game where the 11700 beats the 5800X, and the only slide he's magnified massively...
plus amd cpu can boost higher than that too, my 5950x boost to 5.2ghz not 4.85ghz like 5800x
6000 series is zen3+ With 10% ipc increase over Zen3 on tsmc 6nm/enhanced 7nm (supports DDR5 and pcie4). Target launch window is end of 2021
7000 series is Zen4 with +25% IPC over Zen3+ on TSMC 5nm (supports DDR5 and pcie5). Target launch window is sometime in 2022.l
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Sounds great if true, please could you let me know what the source of that info is?
I'm wondering if I should buy cheap B550 motherboard + 5800x and DDR4 4000mhz RAM at the moment, my DDR3 1600mhz RAM isn't nearly fast enough for some games.
Forget DDR4-4000 on an AMD platform. They have compatibility problems with DDR4-3200, not to speak about any higher.
Caporegime
Wait, What?
Caporegime
Yeah i know, that's a bit mad really for a 16 core lol 32 thread CPU, bonkers.
Caporegime
Hey @Grim5 i see you're running your RAM at 3600Mhz CL14, how can that be? 
It's pretty hard to ignore the price / performance of the i7 10700F (4.8ghz turbo) for around £240 with a cooler, will be interesting to see what Intel prices the 11700 and 11700F at.
I hope there are some budget Intel boards that support upto DDR 4000 mhz or more.
I hope there are some budget Intel boards that support upto DDR 4000 mhz or more.
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Caporegime
That is.... yeah, i... i don't think i could ignore that. Its cheap as chips.
I'll get my coat, sorry....
Worldwide chip shortage expected to last into next year
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...emiconductor-stocks-11614020156?siteid=yhoof2
Availability is said to be poor till early next year
Don
LOL - must have imagined my DDR4-3200 working just fine out of the box