Windows 7 or 8

[linktoinsanity]

Wind your neck in, there's no need for that. Glaucus is right that the concept of a PC is very much blurred now with tablets. You could concivable get a MS Surface and use that as a laptop replacement despite having an ARM processor and non traditional PC hardware. Hardware doesn't define a PC, the use of it by end users does.

It was the "You have a stupid opinion" part that annoyed me. For a supposedly upstanding member of the community, it's not something I'd expect.

 

[Burnsy2023]

This hasn't change though.
You still have right click menu-x or what ever its called which you can add stuff, you still have taskbar and you still have drop lists or whatever they are called, there's hasn't been a great need for start menu for years, people just never bothered using the new features in vista/w7 as much as they should.
About the only one which I would consider annoying is when opening a new program which is infrequently unused. The sequence is identical. Click start button/menu, type pres entre. Nothing's change in the sequence, but now the screen will flicker a couple of times. This again is solved in win8.1 by and large by being able to set screen background the same throughout the two UI. So you won't get the screen flicker.

So lets focus on one point: why, on a traditional desktop environment, do I need a full screen start menu? I like to be able to see other things on my screen when I open new programs.

 

[Burnsy2023]

It was the "You have a stupid opinion" part that annoyed me. For a supposedly upstanding member of the community, it's not something I'd expect.

I appriciate that, but attack the opinion not the poster.

 

[Elevon]

I think your vocabulary that you've used here kind of proves my point. Yes it is "fine" and for many people it is "good enough" and some people may even find it "nice". But it's not exemplary, it's not an exceptional experience and it's certainly not optimal. I think for the keyboard and mouse, Win 7 is closer to all of these things due to the time and effort to refine it for that use case.

All Win7 does is remove Metro side, charms bar and brings back the Start button menu UI wise.


I would agree Win7 is a just desktop OS but thats it nothing else,Win8 is a hybrid OS so by design has to cater for everything,remember when DOS paved the way from keyboard to keyboard and mouse in Windows,with Win8 you now have even more options which is not a bad thing.

There will always be room for improvement so Win9,10 should be very interesting in how the desktop side pans out.

.

 

[Glaucus]

So lets focus on one point: why, on a traditional desktop environment, do I need a full screen start menu? I like to be able to see other things on my screen when I open new programs.

Depends on the user, you obviusly don't need one, and I don't need a start menu and prefer to see a whole list of life info at a glance.

That was really my point though.
OS will never suite everyone 100% you can't as everyone wants something different.
Metro isn't as optimised as the desktop as its newer and the apps haven't had 10s or even hundreads of iterations like software on the desktop.

However is it really that big a deal for you? Have you really found no use for metro? ATM and this is mainly due to what apps are available. Metro is media desktop is office, games etc.

As I said the start menu does not fit in with a hybrid OS or where Ms is taking the S, it is clear by stats why they are doing this and why it is vital for them to do it.
Pc shipments start declining a few months after the ipad was released? Coincidence? I doubt it, though there is more to it tthan just tablets, hardware and the lack of need to upgrade is another.

I just don't think it's a big a deal people make it out to be, and that a lot are to stubborn and just never try it out ad thus never find any benefits.

And as a lot of us say.
If you need a new license you should be getting win8, not only is it cheaper the license is far less restrictive win8 oem = wiin7 retail. And win8 is the better underlying OS. And of curse if you still ate metro even with the 8.1 changes. Then just install startisback or similar and enjoy the new features, cheaper prices and more flexible license.

 

[Burnsy2023]

There will always be room for improvement so Win9,10 should be very interesting in how the desktop side pans out.

.

That assumes that MS will try and improve the traditional experience. I don't think that will happen. I think they will improve the touch experience and that will likely become very good, but it can't be a master of them all.

 

[Glaucus]

That assumes that MS will try and improve the traditional experience. I don't think that will happen. I think they will improve the touch experience and that will likely become very good, but it can't be a master of them all.

They've allready improved win8.1 with k+m
K+m is still a big input marketshare. But it is now just under 50% across the entre market, obviusly touch is a lot lower percentage in just the windows marketshare.

Have you tried 8.1? Would be interested to hear what you think of the changes.

 

[Elevon]

So lets focus on one point: why, on a traditional desktop environment, do I need a full screen start menu? I like to be able to see other things on my screen when I open new programs.

I hated the old Start button menu,I could only pin some many of my games or software to it,with Metro I can organise my columns and tiles and name them,easier for me, the old desktop UI in Win8 you can do most of what Win7 has ie I want three or more programs open not an issue on Win8 old desktop UI.

I have not even touched shortcuts on the old desktop UI or taskbar,all there for customisation as well.
I feel I have best of both worlds ie use Metro when I want or stay on the old desktop UI.

I have no issues going between them, so fast and natural now and I don't even use keyboard shortcuts or third party button mod menu.

 

[Elevon]

That assumes that MS will try and improve the traditional experience. I don't think that will happen. I think they will improve the touch experience and that will likely become very good, but it can't be a master of them all.

I can settle for a very good hybrid OS,in the end I've adapted and used so many different operating systems since the old DOS days so not an issue.

I still feel Microsoft won't forget desktop users in Win9,10 etc...

 

[linktoinsanity]

Have you tried 8.1? Would be interested to hear what you think of the changes.

I've had a poke around Windows 8.1, and I do like the fact that I can now boot to desktop. Haven't had much of chance to test all these other KB + Mouse changes, I would like you to expand on that?

And running Windows 8 happily (despite missing the Start Menu) on my laptop at the moment.

And I do apologise about the personal attack earlier. I was wound up with the heat, power cut at work and this thread. I still disagree with your opinion about the Start Screen, but I'd appreciate if we just agree to differ on that.

 

[TwsT]

Cars have been using a steering wheel for 100 years, so I guess change is long overdue? No, wait, I haven't seen all new Mercedes or Fords with joysticks, so I guess change for the sake of it is just for Windows then

saab changed it


either way the windows start menu was disfunctional and clunky at best. if it wasn't rocket dock wouldn't have been so popular.

Also desktop icons would be redundant if the darned start menu worked as well as many people seem to claim it did.....

but I guess not changing it for the sake of not changing must be a thing that only microsoft should adhere to.

 

[Elevon]

I've had a poke around Windows 8.1, and I do like the fact that I can now boot to desktop. Haven't had much of chance to test all these other KB + Mouse changes, I would like you to expand on that?

And running Windows 8 happily (despite missing the Start Menu) on my laptop at the moment.

And I do apologise about the personal attack earlier. I was wound up with the heat, power cut at work and this thread. I still disagree with your opinion about the Start Screen, but I'd appreciate if we just agree to differ on that.

I still get people thinking the Start button on Win8.1 is like the Win7 one,so I've to correct them in what it does.

 

[theheyes]

I've had a poke around Windows 8.1, and I do like the fact that I can now boot to desktop. Haven't had much of chance to test all these other KB + Mouse changes, I would like you to expand on that?

You can now right click the start button and access the shutdown and restart commands, and you can also disable the upper hot corners so you don't accidentally invoke them. I've also noticed, depending on which corner you invoke the the charms from, they appear on the bar closer to the top or bottom. I assume this is to cut down on some of the cursor travel on larger monitors. Its not a big deal but better than nothing.

 

[linktoinsanity]

I still get people thinking the Start button on Win8.1 is like the Win7 one,so I've to correct them in what it does.

The first time I heard about it I thought it did too I admit, but then I read up on it and found that wasn't the case.

Better than nothing though, as it does help in that it becomes a visual clue for most users (MS's intention).

It's good that you can also change the background of the Start Screen to match that of the desktop, helping it to not be so jarring when it comes up.

Thanks theheyes. The Start - shutdown is a good feature. If they'd done more of this for Windows 8 and left the Start menu as an option I doubt there would have been so many arguments.

 

[theheyes]

Oh and one more thing, the search doesn't take over the whole screen anymore. It just slides in as a panel from the right hand side. It's miles better for quick searches.

 

[Glaucus]

I've had a poke around Windows 8.1, and I do like the fact that I can now boot to desktop. Haven't had much of chance to test all these other KB + Mouse changes, I would like you to expand on that?

And running Windows 8 happily (despite missing the Start Menu) on my laptop at the moment.

And I do apologise about the personal attack earlier. I was wound up with the heat, power cut at work and this thread. I still disagree with your opinion about the Start Screen, but I'd appreciate if we just agree to differ on that.

I apologise as well.
as well as where you boot to, disabling hot corners, improved search, improved menuX, button and all app liston metro, small icons etc

 

[Tute]

A start menu does not fit into a hybrid OS, win8 is just the first step of a truly hybrid OS, holding onto legacy UI would get in the way of a hybrid Os, that is why it's gone and won't be returning, other than with third party apps.

I completely disagree. A proper hybrid OS would just include the Start Menu as an option in the Control Panel and let people make their own choice. That way, everyone's happy.

The way Microsoft seem determined to upset their traditional desktop userbase is very odd. What if tablets go the way of the Netbook and die out in a couple of years? All that work, for nothing.

Hell, i'd understand this approach a little better if it wasn't 3 years too late, but what's done is done.

Oh and one more thing, the search doesn't take over the whole screen anymore. It just slides in as a panel from the right hand side. It's miles better for quick searches.

I'm going to risk cremation here but Search is probably the first thing I disable on a new Windows install, even Windows 7. I've just never bothered to use it - I tend to get my Start Menu absolutely perfect and just use that.

I also don't use shortcuts on the task bar. For me - the task bar is there to show me what I currently have running, and I don't want it cluttered with buttons.

 

[Glaucus]

Tablets aren't going to die out, there is zero to suggest that.
Start menu does not work in a hybrid OS, remeber win8 is not the final hybrid os.

 

[Rroff]

I'm going to risk cremation here but Search is probably the first thing I disable on a new Windows install, even Windows 7. I've just never bothered to use it - I tend to get my Start Menu absolutely perfect and just use that.

Its something some people don't seem to see - for some people the search functionality is integral to the way they work and for them I can imagine the out the box Windows 8 experience works very well. Personally I can't even remember the last time I used it. For many reasons out the box the Windows 8 experience is very sub optimal for the way I work compared to Windows 7.

 

[Rroff]

Tablets aren't going to die out, there is zero to suggest that.
Start menu does not work in a hybrid OS, remeber win8 is not the final hybrid os.

Windows 7 start menu works mostly fine on a touchscreen actually - I quite frequently RDP into my Desktop PCs from my tablet or even galaxy note phone and the start menu is the least of the functionality issues I have doing that.