Poll: Winter Is Coming - HBO's A Game of Thrones [READ WARNING]

Who will rule Westeros?

  • Total voters
    471
  • Poll closed .
I know they are trying to tie up all the loose plot ends and they only have limited time and guidance from GRRM, but it just feels like there's a lot of really lazy writing and plot decisions going on now. They seem to have got to an impasse with how to deal with overpowered plot elements and difficult character stories and resorted to just wrapping things up quickly and easily. Episode 4 was littered with characters warping around all over the place as if time and distance was no barrier. Incoherent and lazy storytelling and easily the worst so far.

- A dragon down with ridiculous ease. Were those scorpion bolts laser guided at such extreme range? Why weren't the pirate ships visible from the air in clear weather? Improbable nonsense.

- Missandei captured just to be gratuitously offed. Why not just obliterate the party at the gates containing Dany then? Tyrion was separated from them if Cersei didn't want to harm him.

- Ghost sent north with the Wildings because they couldn't be bothered to do anything else with him?

- The scene with Bron, Tyrion and Jamie lacked any tension because we all knew he wouldn't do it and if he does in one of the next two episodes it'll be a case of 'so what' because it's just a contract to him and there's no real reason beyond that.

All the dialogue and behind the scenes scheming about who will sit on the Iron Throne now feels forced, as if the characters themselves know the franchise is coming to an end. It's suddenly becoming hard to care and I never thought I'd feel like that after all these years watching.
 
I mean they literally could have just put a little CGI fog into the ship scene, you know the low lying type that would explain her not seeing a mini armada, just such lazy writing. To be fair though she has been very careless with them so far in battle, bloody women drivers ;)

The whole pacing is just off once they leave Winterfell, all very rushed. One minute we're here, then we are there. Even if for some reason Cersei doesn't kill them there and then at the gates due to some parlay rules, if Jon's main party is still two weeks away, surely her scouts/spies would know that and she could just destroy them once they go back to camp, before main Northern army arrives.

Speaking of, I am like others confused as to where they all came from, Episode 3 made it look like there was no real fighting force left and Wildlings also left. Army numbers from either side are just confusing and not really adding up at this point.

Bronn scene was just comical. He strolls into Winterfell with a giant crossbow like he owns the place.
 
3 was disappointing, 7 seasons of build up from mentions and vague hints, to a season 7 finale like that and we get everything tied up in a single episode with a cringeworthy ending that feels cheap and very anticlimactic. I feel robbed, we went from well written character driven narratives with decent arc’s to cheap and wasteful deaths and a loss of direction.

If 3 peed on my cornflakes, 4 just turned the milk chocolaty in the worst way possible. I just don’t get how they can go from what was, to this. I’d love to be hopeful, but I really am not feeling it.
 
No1newts said:
I thought episode 3 was bad, 4 managed to be worse.

Fly your dragon round behind them and destroy the ships when they can't touch you for Christ sake.

Time jumps, plot holes, idiot decisions.

At one point I was all on this series finishing the Song of Ice and Fire story as GRRM will never finish the books, but this has careened off a cliff now and once again I'm sitting texting halfway through the episode it's so bad.

Just finish it ASAP now, shame it's stumbled to such an ending.
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You know you don't have to watch the last two episodes you can just pretend the show's over.
 
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Avalon said:
3 was disappointing, 7 seasons of build up from mentions and vague hints, to a season 7 finale like that and we get everything tied up in a single episode with a cringeworthy ending that feels cheap and very anticlimactic. I feel robbed, we went from well written character driven narratives with decent arc’s to cheap and wasteful deaths and a loss of direction.

If 3 peed on my cornflakes, 4 just turned the milk chocolaty in the worst way possible. I just don’t get how they can go from what was, to this. I’d love to be hopeful, but I really am not feeling it.
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You know next time its on don't watch it if you feel that strongly about it.
 
Voted "Other" in the poll so am specifying here:

I think Jon probably survives and though he is the legitimate heir he'll not want the throne, Danny is going a bit off the rails (perhaps not Mad King crazy but people will think she's unsuitable after whatever rash decision she makes next episode like attacking Kings Landing with her dragon etc..) so will be cast aside/become unfeasible (and she'll know it - especially if she loses the other dragon). She's a possible death before the end too IMO whether through acting rashly or being stabbed in the back after losing influence, though Jon is also a strong contender for some heroic death/self sacrifice too - very nearly got himself killed in heroic fashion in the third episode after all.

Gendry being made not-a-******* in the last episode and rising to the ranks of nobility does of course provide an outside chance that he gets the throne if Danny is unsuitable and Jon foregoes it/buggers off up north etc... IIRC the Baratheons have some next in line claim after the Targaryens anyway/have some Targ descent etc..

But I think we could end up in a situation where it is Jon's for the taking and he not only declines to rule as King but ends it/leaves it to no one. That has been a bit of a theme, all kings (and queens) are basically a bit crap and even this heroine, "the breaker of chains", who hates tyrants is becoming a bit crap herself. The books have been written by an American and ditto to the show itself so perhaps an anti-monarchist conclusion is the end goal here.

So that is my "other" prediction, whether or not the above actually happens in that particular way or not I'm going to go with, ultimately, no one getting the Iron throne, there ultimately being no monarch of the seven kingdoms. Whether that means the north or other realms split away or not or Jon perhaps initially taking the throne before ending it I'm not sure but I think the end of Kings and Queens (of the seven kingdoms) could be seen as a good conclusion by American creators.
 
Can't wait for Arya to use one of her faces in order to get close to Cersei and whispering, "The Lannisters may send their regards, but the Starks deliver theirs" in her ear before slicing her belly open.
 
Mr Jack said:
I read the first bit where the poster demonstrates they're too stupid to grasp that the audience and the characters have different knowledge and decided their opinion wasn't worth reading more of.
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Then you missed a lot of pertinent points.

I have completely lost interest in this now. I’ll watch them, but I don’t have the excitement or interest to stay up for the 2am showing.
 
Oh God this episode was just appalling, me and a couple of friends were sitting there watching with our jaws agape at how hilariously bad things have got in such a short space of time.

So many wtf things happened:

1) Jon about to tell his sisters about his secret then the camera cutting away.

2) Sisters then telling everyone about his secret three scenes later.

3) Jaime and Brienne's cringeworthily awkward and 100% unnecessary sex scenes.

4) Jaime throwing away seasons of character development and rendering himself pointless to run back to Cersei. Utterly bizzarre.

5) Jon leaving Ghost without so much as a pat or a hug.

6) Arya running off to join The Hound on a merry jaunt despite spending seasons trying to get away from him or kill him.

7) Bronns utterly bizzarre appearence and cringingly awkward dialogue. Everything was so out of character it hurt.

8) Daenerys not seeing an entire fleet waiting just around the corner from where they knew a fleet would/should be.

9) Euron Greyjoy managing to destroy a fleet of ships by machine-gunning ballistae bolts.

10) Danerys's fleet was seemingly wholly destroyed, washed up on the beach, then appearing in front of the city as though nothing has happened. How many died?

11) Daenerys standing in front of a city with her dragon sitting within range of every ballistae on the walls. The army standing within range of every archer on the walls. Daenerys having zero archers or units with ladders capable of breaching/scaling said walls.

12) Missandei standing there with only her hands loosely shackled directly next to Cersei while knowing she would shortly be killed. Being the brave uberwoman she is surely she could have struck or grabbed Cersei and jumped off the wall?

The directors clearly have zero idea what they are doing now and are just rushing through it in the most haphazard way they can. The script is bad, the directing is bad, and the show has lost all gravitas as well as emotion. It was like a bad romcom.

They will deservedly go down in infamy for this.

banbom44 said:
You know you don't have to watch the last two episodes you can just pretend the show's over.
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banbom44 said:
You know next time its on don't watch it if you feel that strongly about it.
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It's an open thread, but for the sake of your own dignity why make such daft and childlike posts? If you can't handle criticism of your favourite show like an adult then that's your problem. For the rest of us intelligent people capable of giving open and honest critique, we shall continue to post our thoughts. :)
 
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We actually quite enjoyed this episode - at least you could see what was going on compared to the previous week's murky Battle Of Winterfell. Agree some of the plot elements were a bit far fetched but in deference to the makers they are trying to tell the rest of the story in the space of three hours.

Hard to see Dany winning anything now, unless she has an ace in the hole. Another dragon gone, King's Landing surrounded by a ring of steel and well provisioned to withstand a siege by a small, battle weary and severely diminished army. Bound to be some "told you so" cracks appearing next week as Dany points out if they had attacked Kings Landing first with three dragons, no anti-air weapons in place and full might of the southern armies, the result might have been quite different, as opposed to rushing north. At least now we know what Cersei has been up to during the last two episodes. Best hope is they can sneak Arya in under the ramparts for a bit of one on one with Cersei, but I would imagine even the hidden ways in have been identified and fortified by now.
 
So what it comes down to is that Dany should have ignored her advisors, burnt kings landing and become queen. The north conspire against her and she lost most her forces. That was a costly error. Who will end up on the throne? I don’t see it being dany or Jon.
 
@Richdog that’s twice you’ve gone about your ‘intelligence’ now (or others lacking it). People shouldn’t be butt-hurt over the views of others but putting people down on that basis is really quite lame :o

For what it’s worth, I’ve just gone through your list of points 1-13 and there isn’t one which I think is of particular merit. I didn’t find anything to be wildly out of character - there were a few ‘action pieces’ that were far fetched but nothing like Legolas sliding down on a shield level of silly and I really didn’t feel that anyone was acting in a manner that was hugely out of character. Jon was honest, it’s going to hurt him. Isn’t that the theme of the whole show?

The time warp thing has been happening for some time now and it also features quite a bit in the earlier seasons with characters warping around, noting Robert clearly states it takes a month’s riding to get between kings landing and winterfell. The series would never end if it’s in real time. It has to advance plot, within an ~hour, where it takes a months travel between places. Clearly, there is going to have to be some jumping around. Sure, it’s more pronounced now but... what’s the alternative?

The whole “why didn’t....” thing is such a weird form of criticism in my view, for a TV show. Well, sometimes things just don’t happen - the same for real life. To the extent that they are valid, such as why did Danny see the ships, she just.... didn’t *shrug* ultimately it doesn’t matter. She was careless, didn’t see them, Cersei was one step ahead and now her dragon is dead. I’m just taking it as “well, she was ambushed”. I don’t feel any need to consult the geographical mapping of the area or a cloud cover chart. You are damaging your own enjoyment of the show if you are going to put such a high level of undue observational criticism on it.

Hence my earlier response of “it’s just a TV show” - if you can’t accept it for what it is then unfortunately that’s your loss.

I thought Ep.4 was great - massively advanced the plot. Looks like Kings landing is going to burn!
 
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I really enjoyed last week's episode with the huge battle and happily overlooked the flaws in logic and tactics as I understand they were trying to create something entertaining. This season has certainly been a drop in form, but trying to tell the story in such a short timescale was always going to be jarring. This latest episode though was such a huge letdown.

Again, stupid tactically decisions I can forgive, as this is TV and not some table-top warhammer game. It was the massive character u-turns that really put me off, which Richdog touched on above:

1. Jamie going back to Cersei, seemingly triggered by Sansa making a mean comment. He was one of my favourite characters and I don't understand this writing decision at all. Unfortunately I can only see Jamie needing to be close to Cersei for one final big plot point.

2. Dany ignoring all her advisors, which seems like where the character was in season 3/4. I thought we had moved past all this now and that she had grown in to a proper leader.

3. Bronn becoming a parody of himself. Again one of the best characters ruined. Yes I know he's a sword for hire blah blah, but just don't buy this decision at all, especially after everything he has been through with both Tyrion and Jamie.

4. Tormund becoming a court jester. He was drunk I know, but he's gone very silly this last season.

It's a shame that the timeline is ruining the show a little bit. So much excellent build up, for it all to come crashing down.
 
I thought the Jamie bit was him deciding he needed to help the north in the war. He told all that to Brienne just to have her accept he was going.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the theory's about other factions joining Dani for the battle. Who was the guy that killed his two 'Partners' to follow Dani with his army? I think Dani left him looking after one of the slave cities? Also, it was mentioned the sand/Dorne people have pledged allegiance to Dani too? Maybe they turn up with a big army?

Whilst I agree it's definitely dropped in quality, I still think it's good TV. If it was 9½/10 before, it's still 7/10 right now I think. Some people seem to have it dropped to 2 or 3/10!
 
@Richdog

Oh and here’s my actual criticisms from the recent series, so you don’t think I’m just loving everything.

- Bran is absolutely super-crap. He is so annoying.

- It was a little silly having swarms of the dead and so many of them survive. Brien and Sam were dodos on the screen and pulled through. That was a little jarring but ho hum. Ep.3 was silly in that regard a number of times.
 
It is fairly clear now anyhow that writing has gone down the pan in a big way.

We have still yet to see Yara returning with reinforcements for Dany so she'll either arrive with a huge load of wargh elephants somehow or a fleet of ships that Euron will magically destroy.

Bran has a huge part in all of this and I can't wait for the reveal. The reactions of Sansa and Arya I think...were hidden from us for a reason imo - to what end I don't know just yet.
 
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