Poll: Winter Is Coming - HBO's A Game of Thrones [READ WARNING]

[Irish_Tom]

She could have melted the castle with just Cersei and her defenseless posse in it and spared anyone else from dying when she first landed in Westeros at her full strength, but she was talked out of it by Tyrion. Would the common people rally to the Red Keep to defend a new Queen that had just blown up a whole district? Along with their beloved Queen Margaery?

Tyrion also talked her into trying to ally with Cersei against the Night King and that cost her Viserion

Tyrion also gave her terrible advice and caused her to lose High Garden, Dorne and the Iron Islands is one fell swoop. Powerfull allies and resources, gone.

Not attacking Cersei outright gave her time to prepare for Dragon attacks and build her strength.

And now he is damning her once again by spreading the rumor of Jon's parentage.

She's ONLY in this position of having to resort to violence because she went out of her way to fulfill her promises to the North. Lost most of her army, and loved ones. And Sansa and co. STILL don't trust her. And Varys thinks her unreasonable.

And even AFTER Cersei killed yet another of her dragons she STILL was willing to offer her a chance to surrender.

Now she's a bad person for being forced to fight fire with fire?! She's literally been trying the diplomatic way all along, listening to her advisors, and lost everything because of it.

Listening to her advisors got her where she is right now, and even they are blaming her and scheming against her for being furious, rather than taking a look at their own incompetence.

This is a good point. Given that losing a dragon to the NK was ultimately what expedited the fall of the wall, Danny would surely have had time to take KL, regroup and then head north to defend WF, potentially with a stronger force…

Don't you think its daft that Dany is holding back because of civilian casualties throughout human history has an army ever held back because of that can you imagine the soviets at the battle of Berlin holding back because they are worried about what the Germans will think of them after the wars over.

This is less of a good point. Throughout the story, we have seen how Danny wants to be a caring and compassionate ruler — even in the last episode she railed against tyrants. Not decimating KL is consistent with her character.

Did Stalin yearn for the love and affection of the German people? Was he going to move his seat of power to Berlin? Was WW2 fictional?

Quite. The people of KL hadn’t killed, raped and pillaged their way across her homeland either. Ok, the Lannisters killed her father and tried to kill her and her brother, but that wasn’t ‘the people’. To all intents and purposes, the people of KL are Danny’s people. It’s not the same thing at all.

 

[Nitefly]

I don’t think Danny is appearing ‘mad’ per se, it’s just a natural development of her character. Her patience is growing thin and she is evidently more willing to be ruthless. If Danny is ‘mad’ then Cersei is already ‘very mad’. Danny has shown she cares for people but has consistently been fierce / firm when people question her leadership. None of them seem to be truly good people other than Ned and John. Oh well maybe they are all mad

Ahh Danny is just too greedy! She could have it all but no, gotta get the throne. Cersei using operation human shield as a disincentive... I feel sorry for everyone about to get toasted!

 

[V_R]

It’s my understanding that these are fine, so long as it’s in spoiler tags and the source of the spoiler is mentioned.

Unless I’m missing a specific rule that’s not in the OP?

Ah no worries, I thought I'd seen a mod post saying no future spoilers or something to that effect in this thread. I've seen that leak on Reddit anyway and had discussed it earlier in this thread (but didn't post any details) so doesn't bother me one way or another.

 

[Yaayuh!]

It’s my understanding that these are fine, so long as it’s in spoiler tags and the source of the spoiler is mentioned.

Unless I’m missing a specific rule that’s not in the OP?

OP says:

THIS THREAD NOW CONTAINS DISCUSION OF EPISODES THAT HAVE AIRED IN THE UK ONLY. FOR FUTURE STORY DISCUSSION PLEASE SEE THIS THREAD;

I suggest we stick by that an not allow any other content, especially leaks.

 

[LiE]

Love it!

 

[FrankJH]

This is a good point. Given that losing a dragon to the NK was ultimately what expedited the fall of the wall, Danny would surely have had time to take KL, regroup and then head north to defend WF, potentially with a stronger force…
.

This makes no sense to me what so ever.

look at the castle ramparts when Sandae gets executed - even without those massive crossbows that the dragons have to avoid, those walls are pretty inpenetrable via any reasonable means - I don't think Danny would have come out of any fight with even 25% of her force she went down there with.....and highly doubt the army would have got that much bigger (and thinking that any already weary, and probably highly depleated) army would have defeated the NK is pure fantasy. Look at how large Dany's army was outside Winterfell.....and after the NK was defeated it was down to what 10% of that at best?


Even IF Winterfell still existed had Danny gone south first

 

[james.miller]

Tyrion also talked her into trying to ally with Cersei against the Night King and that cost her Viserion

Interesting way to look at it...

Dany and Snow should never have won against the NK, it was an impossible situation. They needed Cersei or they needed a miracle and since planning for a miracle is ridiculous, there was no other choice but to try and ally with her. Well, Bran could have drawn the NK to King's landing instead, i suppose, but at the cost of thousands of innocent lives and no guarantee that Cersei would go down. Not a good plan.

As it turned out they got the miracle (of crappy writing) and not Cersei. That doesnt mean it's Tyrion's fault that Viserion died? If they had Cersei's help and not possibly the biggest Deus ex machina of all time, would it have been Tyrions fault then? The battle would have still happened and there's not much to suggest the dragon wouldnt have still died... Who's to blame then? Arya for not pin pricking the NK sooner?

 

[DrToffnar]

It seems that quite a few in here who are still enjoying the show are spending more time berating the opinions of those criticising it then actually listing reasons as to why it's still great TV xD

 

[AndyCr15]

Although, they probably should have used a picture of a sundae in the lower half. That might have been funny...

 

[LiE]

Thread needs more memes

 

[Rids]

I don’t think Danny is appearing ‘mad’ per se, it’s just a natural development of her character. Her patience is growing thin and she is evidently more willing to be ruthless. If Danny is ‘mad’ then Cersei is already ‘very mad’. Danny has shown she cares for people but has consistently been fierce / firm when people question her leadership. None of them seem to be truly good people other than Ned and John. Oh well maybe they are all mad

Ahh Danny is just too greedy! She could have it all but no, gotta get the throne. Cersei using operation human shield as a disincentive... I feel sorry for everyone about to get toasted!

The thing with Dany is she was always upheld to be something different - or at least she tried to be. She tried to stop the Dothraki from raping and pillaging, she overthrew the masters of Slavers Bay and then tried (failed) to bring in true justice, even executing a former slave for murder. When she allied with the Iron Islands she made it clear that reaving was a thing of their past... she was always trying to be better.

If she burns kings landing then she becomes a tyrant to kill a tyrant, and no justifcation about the ends justifying the means will stand up to the fact that shes fallen from the high minded person she once was.

 

[Nitefly]

The thing with Dany is she was always upheld to be something different - or at least she tried to be. She tried to stop the Dothraki from raping and pillaging, she overthrew the masters of Slavers Bay and then tried (failed) to bring in true justice, even executing a former slave for murder. When she allied with the Iron Islands she made it clear that reaving was a thing of their past... she was always trying to be better.

If she burns kings landing then she becomes a tyrant to kill a tyrant, and no justifcation about the ends justifying the means will stand up to the fact that shes fallen from the high minded person she once was.

I think it’s one of the ongoing themes. The desire for power corrupts and yes, it will be a fall from grace.

She had that line about “doing what was necessary to rid the world of tyrants” which was obviously showing she had flipped and was in fact as scary as her enemies. I just don’t think she is ‘mad’ like the ‘mad king’.

 

[Rids]

She had that line about “doing what was necessary to rid the world of tyrants” which was obviously showing she had flipped and was in fact as scary as her enemies. I just don’t think she is ‘mad’ like the ‘mad king’.

Agreed, but if she burns 5000 innocents taking KL, that is an act arguably worse than anything the mad king did (although he did have a worse act planned)

 

[Moothead2]

The thing with Dany is she was always upheld to be something different - or at least she tried to be. She tried to stop the Dothraki from raping and pillaging, she overthrew the masters of Slavers Bay and then tried (failed) to bring in true justice, even executing a former slave for murder. When she allied with the Iron Islands she made it clear that reaving was a thing of their past... she was always trying to be better.

If she burns kings landing then she becomes a tyrant to kill a tyrant, and no justifcation about the ends justifying the means will stand up to the fact that shes fallen from the high minded person she once was.

She never had to burn King Landing though, she could have used the element of surprise and just burned down the Red Keep keeping innocent casualties to a minimum. Even better she could have killed Cersei, Qyburn and the Mountain when they had their first meeting in the Dragon Pit, no one else had to die. Instead they turned Tyrion into a complete moron who "Knows his sister better than anyone" despite being ****** over by her every single damn time and decided to let her live.

 

[Nitefly]

She never had to burn King Landing though, she could have used the element of surprise and just burned down the Red Keep keeping innocent casualties to a minimum. Even better she could have killed Cersei, Qyburn and the Mountain when they had their first meeting in the Dragon Pit, no one else had to die. Instead they turned Tyrion into a complete moron who "Knows his sister better than anyone" despite being ****** over by her every single damn time and decided to let her live.

Danny has made this criticism of him (i.e that he’s been outwitted) in the show.

 

[Moothead2]

Danny has made this criticism of him (i.e that he’s been outwitted) in the show.

Tyrion being outwitted by Cersei is like an adult being outwitted by an infant at this point. It's just **** poor writing for what was supposed to be the greatest mind in Westeros.

 

[Nitefly]

Tyrion being outwitted by Cersei is like an adult being outwitted by an infant at this point. It's just **** poor writing for what was supposed to be the greatest mind in Westeros.

Eh not really. Cersei has been shown to be increasingly callous and, if you recall, Tyrion and Danny wanted Cersei’s help to win against the WW (as they then thought). Did you forget that? Why would it make sense to kill someone who’s help you needed?

 

[Moothead2]

Eh not really. Cersei has been shown to be increasingly callous and, if you recall, Tyrion and Danny wanted Cersei’s help to win against the WW (as they then thought). Did you forget that? Why would it make sense to kill someone who’s help you needed?

Because it was incredibly evident that she wasn't going to help anyway? As you've literally just said she's become increasingly callous. Tyrion from seasons 1-4 would have known that so why is he such a complete moron all of a sudden.

 

[Washout]

I think the one think he knows about Cersei for 100% certainty is she loves her children more than anything.
I don't think that's actually true anymore as she almost couldn't give a fiddle after Tommen and her experience with the Sparrows but Tyrion doesn't know that.

So the one true chance to save everyone, her child included would be to join their forces. I guess he knows a bit better now! Even Jaime didn't think she'd go back on her word but they've not been as close since he came back with one hand.

Only one who saw the duplicity coming was Sansa, which is why she's so wary of Dany with Jon. You play the game or you die!

 

[Moothead2]

I think the one think he knows about Cersei for 100% certainty is she loves her children more than anything.
I don't think that's actually true anymore as she almost couldn't give a fiddle after Tommen and her experience with the Sparrows but Tyrion doesn't know that.

So the one true chance to save everyone, her child included would be to join their forces. I guess he knows a bit better now! Even Jaime didn't think she'd go back on her word but they've not been as close since he came back with one hand.

Only one who saw the duplicity coming was Sansa, which is why she's so wary of Dany with Jon. You play the game or you die!

He come up with the plan before he knew she was pregnant though so him thinking she'd do anything for her children doesn't work here. A better plan would have been to kill Cersei and appeal to Jaime for help. With Cersei dead the Lannister armies would have followed him.