Whilst i'm not entirely satisfied with the final season, i'm sort of glad it's over. In hindsight i think perhaps it would have been better to end it earlier, maybe within six series or so, but again there's so many threads to keep track off that may have left more undone. Who knows!
Poll: Winter Is Coming - HBO's A Game of Thrones [READ WARNING]
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Okay and what else is she supposed to do? Let them go so they can fight against her? Keep them as prisoners of war despite having no real value in the war against Cersei?
They were oathbreakers and she gave them every chance to renew their oath, showing more mercy than pretty much any other ruler. Killing two members of a highly regarded house is a bit short sighted sure, but it's hardly a sign of madness. This is Westeros, not modern day Britain.
Arya killing him is terrible. She is a half-trained assassin with a few years of experience. To think she can kill the Night King so easily after ghosting through an army of the dead is just ridiculous. It was cheese in the extreme.
Why would people start praising a few good scenes when they are horribly disappointed with the season as a whole? Obviously the opinion of a season overshadows the enjoyment of a few good scenes.
Of course you 'really liked the twist', I'd expect nothing less!
Having Jon kill the night king as he was set up to do from an early stage would have been the natural satisfying conclusion and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you think for a second that a character following through with a story arc is "cliche" then I'm not sure you know what it really means.
D&D made much of what happened in prior seasons an absolute waste of time, and you are now one of the extreme minority of people without any good taste or critical judgement defending it. Even the die-hard defenders of D&D on Reddit are now all seeing sense and realizing how awful it all is.
Agreed, for me it wasn't the fact arya killed the NK. It was the fact he was killed so early on without any further character development, or explanation to his origins. I'd have prefered it if the dragon glass stabbed into him but did nothing. Leading to either an epic showdown between him and jon in the final episode. Or the characters looking for other means of locating his weakness and destroying him for good.
The whole season tried to be different, but in the wrong ways and it certainly didn't have no where near enough time to even begin to explain why. Its taken 7 seasons to get to know these characters. It's certainly going to take longer than a few episodes to convince us of otherwise, such as a main character has gone mad over the space of 2 episodes? right...
Just lousy and rushed writing at its finest and of a show of this calibre, just not acceptable. Those defending it are probably the ones who first time binge watched all the seasons over the past year.
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Just how epic did people actually think the NK storyline was going to be? If ultimately he was going to be the victor why not spend significantly more screen time learning about him as opposed to the living characters? Despite being an overall fan of S8 I guess that is one of my problems with Cersei's story in that her lack of screen time and overall development in S8 meant she was doomed before any fighting started. I suppose you could argue that this was because she isolated herself from all those around her, but still, from a story perspective she was basically dead meat based on the structure of S8.
Great, and if you look at S8 as a stand-alone season without any idea of previous seasons, this might work. But the fact is Cersei has been shown from season one to be an extremely significant character and ends up becoming one of the main protagonists, with arguably as much if not more significance to the plots than the actual Night King. And what happens? She’s barely a side character in S8, and her come-uppance a building crumbling onto her head whilst she weeps with Jamie. And the Night King? Well, we don’t actually know about “him” from S1, but the threat of winter is made significantly clear from the start and again, in S8 this totally significant threat that will literally bring winter for thousands of years cannot withstand a girl-assassin that somehow manages to get past loads of wights and his generals. It just doesn’t work well at all. It’s been done for the “oh cool, yeah” reaction and nothing more. Nobody expected the Night King to win. But it’s not wrong to expect a little more from something that’s been made out to be an extremely significant threat. There’s not even been any exploration into his character or background. It was done and then it was time to teleport to Kings Landing after a few coffees at Starbucks. Oh, and reveal that Gendry is a Baratheon as well. Another pointless revelation because it wasn’t explored past a mention.
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Ironically winter never came I guess??? Certainly very little sign of it in S8. Looked temperate in KL at the end and arguably no more wintery when John went north in the final episode to the opening scene of S1. Is this canon?
Best Moments in Game of Thrones - https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/best-moments-of-game-of-thrones/
Interesting?
Interesting?
So, my response!
I decided the best way to respond would be watching the video and responding to all the points it made (to the extent one should be laborious about an internet discussion on a TV show), so that's below. I think it was impossible for some people to be satisfied with a 6 episode conclusion. I enjoyed the change of pace. I rarely watch TV shows because I absolutely detest the fact that they DON'T end (and therefore there is no drama nor plot that is engaging because it's rarely resolved - I particularly hate 'carrot dangling' and things teased over numerous episodes, its just annoying and lazy). More episode's in this season could have smoothed some things out but ultimately the story would end the same way. The Journey IS important of course and the series wasn't perfect.
I also really think that the earlier seasons are not as watertight as people make out. The amount of off-screen plot advancing in series 1 is ridiculous and most scenes with Rob Stark are quite forgettable. Yeah, we'll gloss over the lady of light popping out a demon to kill Renly and Tywin Lannister teleporting into Blackwater... the 'deus ex machine' of the Tyrell's appearing out of nowhere. These were not flawless in the TV show...
Anywhere, here were my thoughts and how they could be 'explained / shrugged' off.
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"Arya sleeping with Gendry is creepy" - yes this was odd having just watched the whole thing over again but she was a young lady and it made sense.
"Bran is the target of the Night King" - This does make sense in respect of powers that the NK will potentially gain by 'assimilating bran', and the two did have a bond. The whole 'memories' discussion with Sam gave didn't really hit that in the show (I remarked at the time it was odd) but Bran being a target of the NK, OK in principle.
"Dothraki all died then came back" - They were shown retreating at Winterfell. It also never said that absolutely all of the Dothraki charged.
"Super dark episode 3" - yup, can't argue with that.
"Plot armour in episode 3 - surviving swarms of zombies" - yes, I agree that was jarring. If you go back to my thoughts on this episode, I make this exact comment. This was one of my gripes with the series and a problem with any film where the enemy is supposed to be unstoppable. The only way of defeating them is by having superhero characters. This was the first (and only) time the show did this IMO, to such a noticeable degree.
"Bran warging into a crow" - yup, Bran was useless. Again, one of my gripes with the series is the underdevelopment of Bran on screen.
"Hiding in the Crypts" - yup, silly! But inconsequential.
"The night king dies too easily and that's that" - What did people actually want with the white walkers. Two episodes of battling night king or a prolonged campaign against the white walkers? Again, they are overpowered and thus a pretty boring enemy, like most non-human enemies. Can you see them fighting a 'species' with no dialogue and super powers being particularly interesting if dragged on for multiple episodes? I am perfectly happy with this story arc coming to and end in one battle. It was also natural that this would be resolved before the the next ruler was decided.
"It could have been fleshed out to make it better" - A fair criticism. I quite liked the change of pace after such a long build up, but most people seem to think that more episodes would have been better. In respect of the NK or Danny's arc, I don't think more episodes were necessary. Would it mean that they could have shown more Bron and more development of Bran, and possibly more Jamie? Yep, definitely, but I do not find their story conclusions jarring.
"Danny flies off to Kings Landing and a dragon dies, unexpectedly - forgetting about Euron's fleet" - well if I'm going to be petty, first she was going to Dragonstone and then on to KL
That was a surprise to me in the show. Naturally I'm not sat there thinking "oooo watch out there are going to be killer boats" - would Danny be concerned about this in the show? The armies were were anticipated as being at KL itself and not Dragonstone. Also, this was the very first time we saw the boats with scorpions - that would have been a surprise. As for not seeing the boats... well, she was being cocky, got ambushed and she didn't see them *shrug* I really don't get why people got so hung up on this. Being ambushed and losing a dragon is not absurd in principle. Scorpions were known to be a threat form the wagon incident but otherwise the dragons are mad over powered. Danny was cocky, outwitted and lost a dragon. And anyway, did the dragon dying, ultimately effect the end of the show. No. KL was steamrollered with one dragon being ridden by a less cocky Danny. There is no reason to get so upset at this one dragon dying. If 'adding some cloud' would have solved this problem for you, then I'm sorry that GOT was ruined by the lack of cloud "Danny retreated and didn't attack the ships" - shock, lack of determination, no strategy, not sure what to do.
"Danny absolutely hoons the scorpions at kings landing" - the could have had more shots of these being fired, but I don't have a problem with this nor do I have a problem with Danny steamrolling KL. Lot's of build up for a battle, one side gets absolutely obliterated. Surely that's more satisfying that any long drawn out battle akin to Return of the King, which would have been more jarring?
"Golden Company were useless" - against the dragon, yup.
"Danny kills everyone, not enough fleshing out for her character" - I just disagree with this. Danny has been fuming every since she lost the iron fleet in series 7 and once she got power for the duration the WHOLE SHOW people have been calming her temper. She's ordered the murder of loads of people. I've seen the whole show 3 times, including once recently and I didn't find this 'out of character' at all. More of a fall from grace.
"Jamie going to be with Cersei and how they die" - again, absolutely fine. People wanted him to kill Cersei which, yeah, OK, a possible ending. But obvious and boring. He and Cersei going out the way they did was the most unexpected thing they could have done. Jamie was a tragic character. He died a tragic death.
"Arya and the horse" - funny in the video but another non-criticism. The horse is obviously supposed to be something beautiful and innocent amongst the chaos. It had absolutely no purpose other than that. Arya got off the horse.
"John kills Danny" - Fine. There was nobody better suited. He had to act and he did.
"Tyrrean being a prisoner and speaking freely in respect of the king" - Grey Worm is just utterly lost at this point. He hates John but has no motive beyond that and not a clue what to do. He knows Tyrrean is clever and ultimately allows him to speak. Again, no problem with this.
"Arya faceless thing didn't go anywhere" - it was used against the Freys. Why did it have to be used again? Non point.
"Bran being king" - makes complete sense story wise for the reasons that Tyrrean gave SAVE THAT his character was underdeveloped in the show and I agree that this was a justifiable gripe.
"John wasn't king" - Does anyone even like John anymore? He decision making and backing of Danny caused the mess at KL. I don't think he's in anyone's 'good books'. Grey Worm was wanting the death of John so he'd never stand for that. John never wanted to be king and is probably going to be eternally miserable for what he's been through and will, honourable, choose to carry that weight. John being king would have made possibly the least sense IMO.
"Arya explores" - for the same reason travelling is enjoyable to anyone else.
"Bran implies he's going to find where Dragon is" - why wouldn't he? What's wrong with that.
"Bron master of coin" - I also don't see why people are super upset about this. I'm rather indifferent. Tyrrean likes Bron. Bron likes Tyrrean. Tyrrean owes Bron big time. *shrug*
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Just to pick a common point amongst your post - "Obvious and boring" - you (and D&D) may consider it to be, but it isn't "boring" to the tens of millions of viewers who wanted that to happen vs the few thousand who have been happy with the actual ending. I know that if I was making a show that was meant to be "popular" then peeing off 95%+ of the viewing audience because I wanted to "subvert expectations" would not be high on my list. Personally I'd want to make that 95%+ happy and leave them with good memories of the show, even that meant a tiny minority felt the ending was "obvious and boring".
Can you honestly say that even 50% of the audience (never mind 95%+) currently have "good memories" of the Jaime/Cersi section of season 8, looking at the absolute storm of complaints, compared to what the numbers would have been if Jaime had killed Cersi before being killed himself by the collapse of the Redkeep? I mean it wouldn't have helped the entire season but that particular arc would have been "satisfying" to far more viewers than the actual ending was.
Giving them such an understated death just seemed more appropriate, fitting and ‘GOTy’ than anything bombastic like being chomped by a dragon. I thought it was a good contrast to Cleganbowl.
I didn’t feel that Jamie had to be redeemed and didn’t think should have killed Cersei. How many redemption arcs have we seen before in films. He was who he was.
You know, I do like the whole ‘subverting expections’. I don’t know why, I just do.
That’s all it comes down to really. Did you like it or not. Would have saved you all from my wall of text
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I must say I have never seen this forum or reddit united in such a way before in their dislike of season 8
Giving them such an understated death just seemed more appropriate, fitting and ‘GOTy’ than anything bombastic like being chomped by a dragon. I thought it was a good contrast to Cleganbowl.
I didn’t feel that Jamie had to be redeemed and didn’t think should have killed Cersei. How many redemption arcs have we seen before in films. He was who he was.
You know, I do like the whole ‘subverting expections’. I don’t know why, I just do.
That’s all it comes down to really. Did you like it or not. Would have saved you all from my wall of text
It was less the nature of her death and more everything leading up to it. She had no plan, she reverted to acting like a child "I don't like this", needed Jamie in the end - Didn't really feel at all like the Cersi we'd watched for 8 seasons, much more the way female characters are depicted in almost every other show. She's been subverting expectations for the best part of a decade and then they bottle it in the last two episodes..
Similarly, I'm fine with Jamie being the selfish, entitled man we wanted him to escape from, but why have Brienne portray him as a hero? He never found redemption but let's pretend he did? Again it's as though the source material zigged but they wanted to zag because that's how TV works..
She didn’t have much of a role in this season other than to antagonise Danny and prep for the final battle. There wasn’t really much for her character to do. Sure, it could have been padded. I don’t feel like she was any different than before. She was still an arse by killing ‘Me Sundae’.
Brianne didn’t portray him as a hero. He portrayed him as being more than the ‘king slayer’, which was his short note in the book. She saw the good in him and thought he was worth more than that curt description. I didn’t find that jarring at all.
There wasn't much for her to do, except maybe come up with a plan. That's kind of my point, she had time and she's supposed to be fiendishly clever, but she spent that time looking out of the window so we could arrive at an ending.
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Worst final season and final episode I have watched since How I met Your Mother.
Clearly rushed and very clear D&D were bored of the project and no longer cared.
Clearly rushed and very clear D&D were bored of the project and no longer cared.
Damn you, I had forgotten how much I hated the Met your Mother ending and had fond memories of the show, now I have to hate it again