Poll: Winter Is Coming - HBO's A Game of Thrones [READ WARNING]

[Moothead2]

Arya killing the NK is 100% D&D, the books don't even have a NK in the same sense that the show has. They threw out any kind of satisfying arc for Jon because Arya was their favourite and they wanted the personality-less anime ninja to kill him.

Daenerys' turn is almost certainly going to happen in the books sure but it'll be written much, much better and be much more convincing as a result. Not a complete 2 episode rush job. Jon killing Dany will probably have much more weight behind it in the books as well if that's what happens.

Jaime might die with Cersei but I'll drink my own **** if it happens anything like it did in the show with a complete 180 of his character. He's more than likely going to be the one who kills her.

I like Jon ******* Westeros off to go and live up north with the Wildlings. What I hate is how they wrote him to get to that point.


Most people seem to be fine with most characters end points, what they hate is how rushed and poorly the final leg of their journey was written.

 

[neoboy]

Yeah I never had any favourites for who will get the throne, if the story was developed well then for all I care it could have been given to Bran The Crip...oh wait

As it stands I'm still none the wiser what makes Bran the best candidate for the job since the significance of his warging was never actually explained. He can see the past? If only they invented books in Westeros and had a whole organisation look after a large collection of those somewhere!

"Why do you you think I came all this way?", mate you're in a wheelchair, someone pushed you all the way here.

 

[Lupis]

Yeah I never had any favourites for who will get the throne, if the story was developed well then for all I care it could have been given to Bran The Crip...oh wait

As it stands I'm still none the wiser what makes Bran the best candidate for the job since the significance of his warging was never actually explained. He can see the past? If only they invented books in Westeros and had a whole organisation look after a large collection of those somewhere!

"Why do you you think I came all this way?", mate you're in a wheelchair, someone pushed you all the way here.

Bran is the best candidate as he has secretly been making a play for the iron throne since the very beginning. He's been manipulating everyone the whole time. He clearly wargs into everyone making them vote yes one at a time.

That makes at least as much sense as anything the script writers bothered to put in.

 

[neoboy]

I actually seen that in a meme

 

[tyler_jrb]

 

[Richdog]

Arya killing the NK, Dany turning, Jaime dying with Cersei, Jon rejecting his birth right and killing Dany. You do realise these aren't the show makers ideas right? You can hate the writing, directing, whatever but those major story points you seem to really hate aren't from them. They are GRRMs. But don't let that get in the way of your frothing.

Anyway, great video of Jons arc has just come out:

See the above posts, it was a mix of D&D's writing and the way they portrayed it all in such a terribly rushed fashion. But don't let that get in the way of your half-hearted attempt at defending the show.

 

[something daft already!!]

 

[AndyCr15]

So... would you still recommend the show to someone that's not seen it?

I think I would. For me, S1 to S6 is still some of the best TV out there.

 

[tyler_jrb]

So... would you still recommend the show to someone that's not seen it?

I think I would. For me, S1 to S6 is still some of the best TV out there.

S1-7 yes most definitely. 7 wasn’t brilliant in regards to previous seasons but it was still good and had some really great scenes.

Season 8 well... I’d erase my own memory if I could .

 

[Washout]

Arya killing the NK is 100% D&D, the books don't even have a NK in the same sense that the show has. They threw out any kind of satisfying arc for Jon because Arya was their favourite and they wanted the personality-less anime ninja to kill him.

I really hope we’ll actually get to find out one day! The NK may only exist on the show (for now) but I don’t think it’s Jon who’ll end their threat.
Arya’s arc, now we know Jon kills Dany, would seem more fitting. Trains in a mystical house of death/many faced god which culminates in her taking down the unnatural thing that doesn’t die.
Fairly clear Jon is the reborn prince blah blah but his true destiny was to save the world from mad dany and not the WW.

Where did all this Arya hate suddenly come from?!

Daenerys' turn is almost certainly going to happen in the books sure but it'll be written much, much better and be much more convincing as a result. Not a complete 2 episode rush job. Jon killing Dany will probably have much more weight behind it in the books as well if that's what happens.

We’ll have to wait and see. She’s been progressively getting more and more harsh and all the recent events of losing pretty much everyone, her child and her love on top of finding out her whole reason for being is undermined by said love is going to give anyone a bad day at the office.
Plenty of people have gone postal for less!
Wouldn’t surprise me if grrm plans her to burn kl in much the same way. Ned beheading or rob suddenly sprouting quarrels style. Ok, with tv show out it won’t be such a surprise/shock anymore...

Jaime might die with Cersei but I'll drink my own **** if it happens anything like it did in the show with a complete 180 of his character. He's more than likely going to be the one who kills her.

Regardless of whether he kills his sister or not how is Jaime going back for her a complete 180 of his character?! He has a tragic end but you really think he’s still the same arrogant character he was at the start? Nah.

I like Jon ******* Westeros off to go and live up north with the Wildlings. What I hate is how they wrote him to get to that point.


Most people seem to be fine with most characters end points, what they hate is how rushed and poorly the final leg of their journey was written.

Agree, it needed more episodes despite the longer running times.

I think they had it all storyboarded out and went with the 13 eps for last two seasons and messed up there. They probably felt there was no more story to tell in between the major events.
No source material to draw on which is not their fault so what are they to do? Make up new stuff while Cersei waits down south?

Not sure I quite agree they intentionally tried to rush it. Those last two season took 3 years to do that in a normal season would get you 30 episodes! Just that for the set piece episodes huge sets had to be built, very long shoots needed etc.

Some replies above!

I think I can understand why grrm hasn’t released the next book. Who can be bothered with the hassle!

See the above posts, it was a mix of D&D's writing and the way they portrayed it all in such a terribly rushed fashion. But don't let that get in the way of your half-hearted attempt at defending the show.

Hmm, changed your tune a wee bit there from hating what happened to hating how it happened (which is fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion).

 

[Nitefly]

So... would you still recommend the show to someone that's not seen it?

I think I would. For me, S1 to S6 is still some of the best TV out there.

Yes, definitely. I do wonder how it would all feel watching it in one go. Would the bad things of s.8 be more pronounced? Or has the hype made everyone get their magnifying glasses out? I don’t know.

A lot of first time watchers seem to have trouble getting over the sex and cruelty in the first couple of seasons. It is all rather depraved and at time crass / arguably sexist (with so much gratuitous female nudity).

All things considered I think GOT is still probably my favourite show. Breaking Bad was my favourite but it really does crawl along after a few rewatches (the whole ‘lab’ section). GOT is far more rewatchable (although the ‘off screen’ action in series 1 is really jarring now - and the scenes at the vale and with Caitlin feel a bit redundant in the context of how the plot advances).

 

[Deleted User 234324]

Watched the 2 hour long making of documentary earlier, was actually really good. Good insight into how it was made.

I do wonder though if GRRM will be writing the books with the intention of making them an alternative ending. Where he won't be limited by screen time.

 

[Rroff]

Jaime might die with Cersei but I'll drink my own **** if it happens anything like it did in the show with a complete 180 of his character. He's more than likely going to be the one who kills her.

I don't really see it as a 180 of the character though the ending of those characters was rather lame and seemed to be an attempt to subvert expectations cheaply without any twist, etc. Jaime might have been going through a lot of changes but he is pretty consistent throughout that push comes to shove ultimately he has a weakness when it comes to his sister and that isn't changing.

One thing I do find a bit odd is Missandei - by that point in the show I think she would have both known how that was going to play out and would have taken her own life by stepping off the wall rather than give Cersei the satisfaction - but that wouldn't have been as blunt motivation for how Daenerys and Grey Worm react/change in response to it which again suffers from them rushing and not building up the development of how those characters change.

 

[G-MAN2004]

So... would you still recommend the show to someone that's not seen it?

I think I would. For me, S1 to S6 is still some of the best TV out there.

Definitely. A bad ending doesn't take away the superb quality seen in previous seasons. For me it was more about the journey than the destination anyway, which is why I'm able to watch LOST over and over.

 

[Moothead2]

Some replies above!

Where did all this Arya hate suddenly come from?!

She's boring. All she does is either stand there with a smug look on her face or blather on about the Starks needing to stick together despite every action she takes this season contradicting everything she says. Calling Sansa the smartest person she knows is a load of **** too considering she's spent no more than a few weeks with her since she returned to Winterfell and has done nothing to support that claim.

Arya killing the NK singlehandedly is completely unearned. It would be like Davos sneaking into the Red Keep to kill Tywin at the end of season 4. People also seem to think she's the best fighter in the show which again is completely unearned. She spent at most a year or so training with the Faceless men, how the hell does some teenage girl, with very little fighting experience outside of lessons with Syrio, become the best fighter in Westeros in such a small period of time? She doesn't, she's only so powerful because she's D&Ds favourite, a borderline Mary Sue. It's completely insulting to characters like Barristan Selmy, who was said to be the greatest swordsman in the realm, who dies to a few high borns in masks armed with daggers.

We’ll have to wait and see. She’s been progressively getting more and more harsh and all the recent events of losing pretty much everyone, her child and her love on top of finding out her whole reason for being is undermined by said love is going to give anyone a bad day at the office.
Plenty of people have gone postal for less!
Wouldn’t surprise me if grrm plans her to burn kl in much the same way. Ned beheading or rob suddenly sprouting quarrels style. Ok, with tv show out it won’t be such a surprise/shock anymore...

If anything her 'harshness' peaked around the time she took over Meereen, she's done far and away more good than she's done bad since arriving in Westeros. The death of Rhaegal and Missandei were so ham-fisted and rushed I'm too busy questioning how the hell it all happened than being invested in Daenerys' mourning. It's also impossible to believe that Jon would instantly become so cold towards her just because she turned out to be his aunt, especially considering there's very little stigma in Westeros regarding Cousin or Aunt/Nephew relationships. Even if he felt weird about it being so unsupportive of someone you're supposedly in love with is embarrassingly bad.

Regardless of whether he kills his sister or not how is Jaime going back for her a complete 180 of his character?! He has a tragic end but you really think he’s still the same arrogant character he was at the start? Nah

You're right! He's actually regressed from the character we saw in Season 1. This reddit post can put into words why Jaime's arc is so bad better than I ever could.

D&D wanted you to forget about Jaime's Arc, and here's why you shouldn't buy their BS

They probably felt there was no more story to tell in between the major events.
No source material to draw on which is not their fault so what are they to do? Make up new stuff while Cersei waits down south?

Not sure I quite agree they intentionally tried to rush it. Those last two season took 3 years to do that in a normal season would get you 30 episodes! Just that for the set piece episodes huge sets had to be built, very long shoots needed etc

They was plenty of story they could write in between the major plot points, instead they decided to tell you through clumsy dialogue rather than actually show you. You're the writers of one of the biggest shows to have ever existed, either put in the effort or pass on the responsibility to someone who will. I think I speak for most people when I say I'd rather have 30 well written episodes with the budget of the first season than 13 poorly written episodes with astronomical budgets.

 

[SixTwoSix]

For me it was more about the journey than the destination anyway, which is why I'm able to watch LOST over and over.

Lost always shines for the characters for me, the story gets a bit silly towards the end but doesn't matter as the development is excellent. Also helps that characters remain true to type rather than doing stuff just to wrap up the story conveniently. From memory the music was superb as well.

I think it's time for a rewatch.

 

[IronSpider]

Arya killing the NK, Dany turning, Jaime dying with Cersei, Jon rejecting his birth right and killing Dany. You do realise these aren't the show makers ideas right? You can hate the writing, directing, whatever but those major story points you seem to really hate aren't from them. They are GRRMs. But don't let that get in the way of your frothing.

Anyway, great video of Jons arc has just come out:

Nice video, lot's of people grumbling on because of how Jon's story panned out especially after the reveal on his parentage. I think it was excellent. Jon Snow was always a bit crap. The nice guy who failed a lot. He was bailed out time and time again by someone else. I find it hard to disagree with this breakdown on the failure of JS...

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/3/1...hero-westeros-daenerys-bad-leadership-dragons

 

[neoboy]

I do wonder though if GRRM will be writing the books with the intention of making them an alternative ending. Where he won't be limited by screen time.

He's very limited by the fact that he has another 5 shows in the pipeline with HBO and he's already 70.

 

[MartinPrince]

Lost always shines for the characters for me, the story gets a bit silly towards the end but doesn't matter as the development is excellent. Also helps that characters remain true to type rather than doing stuff just to wrap up the story conveniently. From memory the music was superb as well.

I think it's time for a rewatch.

I very much agree. Also the music was done by my favourite composer who I discovered long before he started doing movies/TV. It was the first Medal of Honour game that tuned me on to him, I played that theme over and over. I love Michael Giacchino work.

 

[Rroff]

Arya killing the NK singlehandedly is completely unearned. It would be like Davos sneaking into the Red Keep to kill Tywin at the end of season 4. People also seem to think she's the best fighter in the show which again is completely unearned. She spent at most a year or so training with the Faceless men, how the hell does some teenage girl, with very little fighting experience outside of lessons with Syrio, become the best fighter in Westeros in such a small period of time? She doesn't, she's only so powerful because she's D&Ds favourite, a borderline Mary Sue. It's completely insulting to characters like Barristan Selmy, who was said to be the greatest swordsman in the realm, who dies to a few high borns in masks armed with daggers.

She also took quite a few pointers from The Hound during their road trip together and it is also inferred that she has natural talent for it that just needed a bit of shaping with bits that show her instincts for fighting despite not a lot of experience:

https://youtu.be/GWmGrR9a818?t=366