Winter Transfer Window 22/23
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Liverpool appear to have ended their Interest in Bellingham 
Don't think we had any realistic chance of signing him anyway, given how many players we'll need in the summer and we wouldn't be able to offer him CL football, but it still sucks.
Also reports suggest our transfer budget will only be 100 million
Don't think we had any realistic chance of signing him anyway, given how many players we'll need in the summer and we wouldn't be able to offer him CL football, but it still sucks.
Also reports suggest our transfer budget will only be 100 million
We'll spend far more than that, the problem is that it's going to now be spent on 5 players instead of 2 or 3.
I said some months ago that you sign Bellingham not because he fits into how you play or what you particularly need but because of how good he is. As above, our problem is what we need has gone from a couple of players to 5 or maybe even 6 players as the season has gone on. From our point of view we need to bring in a CB and at least two, if not three first team ready CM's this summer but I just hope Bellingham doesn't end up at City. I've never been one that's bought into the endless 'if City buy x then we may as well just pack it in' comments that we see every summer but if they get Bellingham then I think we should.
I said some months ago that you sign Bellingham not because he fits into how you play or what you particularly need but because of how good he is. As above, our problem is what we need has gone from a couple of players to 5 or maybe even 6 players as the season has gone on. From our point of view we need to bring in a CB and at least two, if not three first team ready CM's this summer but I just hope Bellingham doesn't end up at City. I've never been one that's bought into the endless 'if City buy x then we may as well just pack it in' comments that we see every summer but if they get Bellingham then I think we should.
No idea what the source is but yeah theres a lot of places reporting that we've decided that Bellingham is too pricey.Liverpool appear to have ended their Interest in Bellingham
Don't think we had any realistic chance of signing him anyway, given how many players we'll need in the summer and we wouldn't be able to offer him CL football, but it still sucks.
Also reports suggest our transfer budget will only be 100 million
If he ends up going to City they are going to be terrifying next season with Haaland and Alvarez having De Bruyne and Bellingham behind them.
As for the 100m budget, it wouldnt surprise me in the slightest. I've always said that I dont think that Klopp will get the funds that we need. 100m is nowhere near enough considering the overhaul thats needed, especially as the season after that the likes of Henderson, Fabinho, Salah, VVD, Robertson etc will , themselves, all be yet another year older.
Personally, if I was Klopp and ended up being told you have 100m in your kitty, I'd tell them to shove it and resign.
Agreed, I think we'll spend plenty, and if we do so wisely we will be a much better team next season. Unless we had essentially unlimited funds, I always felt that a move for Bellingham would restrict necessary signings in other areas.
This is the summer to sign the equivalent of Fabinho, Robbo, Mane, Bobby and Salah a few years ago. Intelligent signings rather than ready made stars. If we do that well, then next summer is the time to look for this round's VVD and Ali to bring us to the next level.
The difficulty, of course, is in doing that well. Our ability to sign smartly seems to have fallen off a cliff, although I really like Gakpo.
I read this morning that we'd submitted an £89m or £84m bid to Dortmund for Jude and then this afternoon many of the very same Journos, although with a couple more trusted ones, then coming out and saying we'd decided he was too expensive. if we can get Mac Allister, Mount and maybe Caicedo (although Brighton selling two midfielders is unlikely) and maybe Jones might step up (I thought he was very good vs Arsenal, best he's played in a long time) and we can keep Thiago fit and who knows, maybe get another Midfielder or somehow Fab comes good again, and we'll be alright.
There was also talk of a £250m 'warchest', but wages were the big stumbling block. Having said that, when Firmino leaves (£180k a week), Keita (£120k pw), Ox (£120k), Arthur goes back to Juve (£110kpw apparently!) and Adrian (£58kpw) all leave and Milner likely being offered a lesser wage (£60kpw currently) we're looking at freeing up over £500k a week (figures from here, https://www.spotrac.com/epl/liverpool-fc/payroll/ won't vouch for it's accuracy). Mac Allister is apparently on £50k a week at Brighton so we could easily treble that. Caicedo is only on £15k apparently too, so an easy 4x offer and he'd probably be bowled over. Mount is only on £80kpw at Chelsea, Gallagher £50kpw, so we could double that and more and still be paying less than we currently are. We've been linked with Palhina too, on £50kpw at Fulham.
There was also talk of a £250m 'warchest', but wages were the big stumbling block. Having said that, when Firmino leaves (£180k a week), Keita (£120k pw), Ox (£120k), Arthur goes back to Juve (£110kpw apparently!) and Adrian (£58kpw) all leave and Milner likely being offered a lesser wage (£60kpw currently) we're looking at freeing up over £500k a week (figures from here, https://www.spotrac.com/epl/liverpool-fc/payroll/ won't vouch for it's accuracy). Mac Allister is apparently on £50k a week at Brighton so we could easily treble that. Caicedo is only on £15k apparently too, so an easy 4x offer and he'd probably be bowled over. Mount is only on £80kpw at Chelsea, Gallagher £50kpw, so we could double that and more and still be paying less than we currently are. We've been linked with Palhina too, on £50kpw at Fulham.
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I'd be really surprised if we ended up net spending far more than £100 million. And I'd be surprised if we signed 5 first-team players.
Re the spend figure, what is that based on? I cannot ever recall Klopp commenting on the need to spend big like he has in the past month or so and contrary to popular belief, we have generally spent a lot more than £4.50 and a packet of chewits on transfers too. For instance, in the 18/19 season we had a net spend of £163m and before anybody says that was the Coutinho money, we had a net spend of £58m the season before. At a time when the club was ploughing in circa £50m per year on infrastructure work and had far lower revenues than we have today, the club had an average net spend over those two seasons of more than £110m per season. We had a net spend of just shy of £100m in the 20/21 season too. Even without the CL, the club has never been in a stronger position financially and for the first time in 8 years or so, we'll not be spending money on stadium or training ground work.
As for the number of signings. I didn't say we'd be signing 5 first team players. I think we'll sign 5 (maybe even 6) players this summer and at the very least 3 of them (two midfield and one CB) will be first teamers. And for clarity, when I say first teamers I don't mean players that necessarily be the first name on the teamsheet but will form part of the 15-16 man nuculous of the squad that will play 30+ League games.
It's based on our spending in other years.
Our net spend in 18/19 was £123m, not £163m. And it was £30m in 20/21, not just shy of £100m. 18/19 was the only season we surpassed £100 million, we're usually in the £30-50 million range. I expect this summer will be a big spending summer, but big for us means around £100 million.
We're also not going to be making a lot selling players, several are leaving on free transfers. We have a freed up wage budget but we won't have high incoming transfer money. That combined with the likelihood of not being in CL (which is indeed a factor), I just don't see it likely that we'll go on a summer spending spree. We'll have a tight budget and we'll have to work with what we have.
That's also what I mean by first team. I think 2-3 first team is likely but that isn't sufficient. I don't think we'll sign a first team CB unless Matip or Gomez leave, and more than 2 first team midfielders or any attackers are quite unlikely.
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Ok that explains it, you're using incorrect figures on our past spending. It never ceases to amaze me that people still use figures taken from the media (or wikipedia in this case) when the clubs audited accounts state how much they spend. This is not a matter of opinion, it's fact, Liverpool had a net spend of £163m in the 18/19 season and a net spend of £93m in 20/21.
And I disagree re the number of players. I think we'll sign somebody similar to Konate the summer we signed him + at least two first team midfielders, possibly 3 or a younger midfielder. It'll then be a back-up keeper as I expect Kelleher to go and possibly one more, maybe in defence again depending on the futures of Kostas.
I think 3 first team players is sufficient as long as they're the right players. A midfield of 2 new, good players, Fabinho, Bajcetic, Thiago, Hendo, Elliott, and Jones gives a ton of options, and many of those are still good players. Fabinho hasn't become awful in a season, his role has been horribly impacted by what's happened around him. Thiago is still a top player (admittedly only when fit), and Bajcetic, Elliott and Jones are all hugely talented although none should start as frequently as they've had to this year.
Similarly, our back 4 still comprises a lot of good players. As said before, I'd like a replacement for Matip, and a full back who can slowly replace Robbo (perhaps a more defensive one who sits in when Trent goes forward), but with a better midfield and a more coherent forward line, and possibly a tactical tweak, the personnel in the defence isn't a huge worry.
Up front, we've done our reinforcement. Gakpo is hugely promising, Nunez has great potential, Salah is still Salah, Diaz will be back, and we need Jota back to form. It'll also be supplemented by Carvalho and if need be Elliott or Jones.
In short, if we sign the right players, I don't think we need a ton of players. But one £130m player would never resolve the issues we're having. 3-4 £50m players might.
The scary thing is, if City end up getting Bellingham plus whomever else, 3-4 £50m players may well be a moot point. In terms of a title challenge anyway. At our peak we still ended up behind City (all be it only just), not at our peak, even with a couple of new first teamers, we've even less chance of challenging City if City also have Bellingham on top of everything else.
Might be enough to get us back in the top 4 though.
If you can share links to those audited accounts verifying your statements regarding our spending I'll happily accept that but until then, I'd rather go by what I read in sources like Wikipedia and Transfermarkt, rather than your stated "opinion".
Those will be good signings but I haven't seen any indications that we'll be in the market for new CBs. It sounds more like what you want to happen rather than what is likely to happen. And for the record I also agree that signing another CB like Konate will be very good for us, I just find that quite unlikely.
Agreed in general. 3-4 perfect signings would be sufficient, but that is optimistic and wishful thinking.
I'm not worried about defence or attack, I think we have good cover and we've replaced players well, with the exception of a backup/competition at right back. We could use another CB because Gomez, Konate and Matip are all injury prone but that can wait until winter or the summer after that. I have very little confidence in our current midfield line. First choice midfielders are all ageing (Thiago and Hendo over 32 now, Fabinho turning 30 this year) so we don't expect them to get any better and they've been on a decline in terms of their pace, fitness and energy levels. Hendo is more or less at championship level right now and Fabinho isn't all that much better. Thiago is great but he's always injured. We won't be winning the league if Hendo/Fabinho are playing every game. They're still useful but we need to manage their time to keep them playing well. Jones is too inconsistent and injured too often, Elliott is not really a midfielder and Carvalho can't defend. Bajcetic is quite promising though, we need to develop him and have him become a first choice player.
If we sign 2-3 midfielders it's quite unlikely that they'll all work out great, maybe one will be great and others will flop. Then we'll have to go back to the market and sign more, it's going to be painful. Our recruitment of midfielders has not been anywhere near as good as defenders or attackers.
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Here you go:
THE LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB AND ATHLETIC GROUNDS LIMITED filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK
THE LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB AND ATHLETIC GROUNDS LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk
edit: I'm guessing you won't read through the accounts though so I'd suggest following SwissRamble on twitter. Sadly he now charges if you want to read his analysis of club accounts however his threads on all our accounts up to last seasons are freely available on his twitter feed.
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Realistically, if City get Bellingham (and in all honesty even if they don't), we're not going to be at their level next season. They've had years of massive spending, and the scary thing is that they only seem to have started to click with Haaland in the last few months. We could basically sign anyone we want over the summer and we'd be a year behind them still, and that won't be happening.
We need to get ourselves back to challenging with Arsenal (who have been brilliant this season and I hope win the league, but I can't see them competing with City long term without major spending) and Man Utd next year, and following that if we make the right big signings we might be able to kick on again. Next season is about stability, not the title, unfortunately.
Here you go:
THE LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB AND ATHLETIC GROUNDS LIMITED filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK
THE LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB AND ATHLETIC GROUNDS LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
edit: I'm guessing you won't read through the accounts though so I'd suggest following SwissRamble on twitter. Sadly he now charges if you want to read his analysis of club accounts however his threads on all our accounts up to last seasons are freely available on his twitter feed.
If you tell me which doc you were citing from I'm happy to read it but a link a page with tens of docs, each having tens of pages isn't really helpful. Also balance sheet info isn't really all that relevant to this conversation, as revenues and costs from transfers often materialise in future seasons due to instalments, agent fees, clubs retaining purchasing rights, cashbacks, etc.
Just looked at SwissRamble's profiles and indeed quite informative. Mostly when talking about records it's about calendar/fiscal years which doesn't match football seasons so could be why the numbers are different to other sources. Although this guy often cites transfermarkt as well when it comes to transfers (and transfermarkt also doesn't suggest we've had those net spendings in those years).
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The group company accounts for each year are there. As for how you work out the relevant transfer spend in any one year, you have to do a little bit of work but the info is there - you use the cash flow statement and then cross reference that against the transfer debtors/creditors and you'll get the transfer spend in that season.
And here's a table SwissRamble produced to show the transfer spend in each season:
Although it still baffles me that people question this info, I do understand why there is some confusion. Clubs file their accounts 9 months after the year end and given that most transfer activity happens right at the start of a clubs financial year, you're looking at a 20 odd month delay before that info becomes available and in that 20 months you've got loads of guess work and spin from various news outlets regarding fees that were paid and received.
People question it because it should not be used in the way you're using it.
Like I said, working these numbers from balance sheet are affected by to payment schedules, cashbacks, club's activities in the debt markets (for buying/selling future receivables), etc...
Example, it says our purchases in 2020 wee £29m. Is this the same as transfer fees we paid to sign players? Of course not.
We signed Minamino, Jota, Thiago and Tsimikas in 2020. Do you really think we only spent a combined £29m on all four of them? Of course not. We spent a lot more than that, but we paid in instalment like almost all other transfers, so the full values materialise in future fiscal years. The value you see in 2020 is the portion of the payments we made for these players in their first instalment, as well as any second or third year instalment payments we made for players we signed in previous years. The same goes for the sale proceedings.
What you see under a specific year is not the value we paid (or got paid) for transfers in those windows. I hope this clarified it for you. These numbers are important and valuable, but you're using them wrong to make a point that isn't relevant.
Sorry but you're completely wrong. When he says 2020, he's referring to the year end in 2020 which in Liverpool's case in the end of May - therefore the transfers of Jota, Thiago and Tsimikas aren't included.
As I explained above, these are the actual numbers of what the club spent or committed to spending on transfers, not the installments paid. I appreciate you're not an accountant which is why I suggested reading SwissRamble's analysis as he breaks it down in a more simple way for people to read and understand.
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