Woman sentenced to prison for abortion.

bigmike20vt · 13 Jun 2023 at 10:06

tamzzy said:
we'll all be accused of mansplaining why the original verdict is correct

its funny...... if i was to ignore the opinions of a woman because i am a man and i know best on these matters i would rightfully be chastised.

but it is ok to accuse a man of mansplaining to undermine their view when it is the other way around...... (not a dig aimed at you btw)

perhaps every time a woman gets annoyed at me it is ok to say "it must be her time of the month" after all!

(seriously, just because i do not get to carry the child to term does not mean i do not get to have an opinion on whether it is ok to kill a perfectly healthy and viable baby....... and even tho it is the mothers body who is carrying the kid, i think it is ok to say that once you are beyond the legal abortion limit then tough titty, you made your choice, you had almost 6 months to make the decision to abort and you didnt..... you chose to pooh ...... its too late to get off the pot now without making a deposit

Nasher · 13 Jun 2023 at 10:42

The law is the law and it seems like she knew what she was doing. That is quite a light sentence considering what the max is.

bazaarboy · 13 Jun 2023 at 10:58

It was a premeditated, deliberate effort to destroy a child that should have had a life.
She was old enough to know better, and could have had a legal abortion at a much, much earlier stage.

Should there be zero consequences for her actions?
I dont buy the whole "she will live with this her whole life"

Chris Wilson · 13 Jun 2023 at 11:12

I'd wager she's had a promiscuous lifestyle and this won't be the first child she's deliberately aborted. A chemically induced abortion at that late stage is not for the feint hearted or squeamish.

To many women of loose morals abortion is viewed as a post coitus contraceptive.

That said my strong views on the world being grossly over populated vie with any sensitivities for unborn and unwanted children and abortion. A moral dilemma indeed.

fez · 13 Jun 2023 at 11:13

bigmike20vt said:
you know i am pro choice (to a certain time limit) however looking at that image does make me question if 24 weeks isnt too long in general ( without risk of complications.)

I think up to a point its a balance between baby and mums welfare. Term for your first child is (I believe) around 41 weeks so at 24 weeks you still have 4 months to go. If you desperately don't want that baby thats a long time to carry it.

34 weeks is straight up murder. That child still has to be born whether dead or alive and it could have gone straight for adoption. She wouldn't even have had to see it if she didn't want to. Utterly selfish and abhorrent behaviour. I've got 2 bambinos that are just hitting 9 weeks old so perhaps I am not entirely rational but I can't imagine what sort of monster would do this. Unless you have horrible mental health issues there is no excuse for this. She killed that child. No different to killing it when it was in the outside world in my eyes.

robgmun · 13 Jun 2023 at 11:15

The whole debate about abortion is too thorny for me to get into. But the rate is far far too high in this country 250,000 per year last i heard. It should be a 10th of that.

GGizmo · 13 Jun 2023 at 11:22

There always seems to be someone who takes things too far.

bazaarboy · 13 Jun 2023 at 11:27

fez said:
That child still has to be born whether dead or alive and it could have gone straight for adoption. She wouldn't even have had to see it if she didn't want to. Utterly selfish and abhorrent behaviour.

This is the most pertinent point of the whole debate, thank you for putting it across.
Her actions were unnecessary. The abortion pills caused labour to happen.
So, why not have a normal delivery, in a hospital, and allow the child to be taken away and live?

Penfold101 · 13 Jun 2023 at 11:28

robgmun said:
The whole debate about abortion is too thorny for me to get into. But the rate is far far too high in this country 250,000 per year last i heard. It should be a 10th of that.

Rather that than 250,000 unwanted kids either being put into the adoption system or having parents who don't want them in the first place.

Accidental pregnancies occur - this is a fact of life and part of the human condition as sex is an enjoyable activity. If it wasn't, and was there purely for procreation, I would imagine we wouldn't have anywhere near as many unwanted pregnancies as we do. Unfortunately, in order for us to survive as a species, evolution saw fit to make it fun and thus encourage us to do it more.

Thankfully, we have the legal and medical framework in place to stop unplanned or unwanted children being forced into the world and will cover 99% of situations.

You just have to acknowledge that a pregnancy is always a possible outcome of sex whatever precautions are taken, and that's where education in secondary school comes into it. The sooner a male pill becomes available the better, as it'll give us one more tool in the prevention of unwanted pregnancies.

Penfold101 · 13 Jun 2023 at 11:30

Chris Wilson said:
I'd wager she's had a promiscuous lifestyle and this won't be the first child she's deliberately aborted. A chemically induced abortion at that late stage is not for the feint hearted or squeamish.

To many women of loose morals abortion is viewed as a post coitus contraceptive.

Citation needed instead of you slapping a label on every single woman worldwide.

I've had a promiscuous lifestyle and have loose morals - are you putting me in the same box of disgust from your high horse?

robgmun · 13 Jun 2023 at 11:31

We can reduce it by better sex education. I'm sure a vast amount of Accidental pregnancies could have easily been avoided with a bit of thought. 250,000 is just heartbreakingly high and mostly unnecessary

Freakbro · 13 Jun 2023 at 11:36

Haggisman · 13 Jun 2023 at 11:59

fez said:
I think up to a point its a balance between baby and mums welfare. Term for your first child is (I believe) around 41 weeks so at 24 weeks you still have 4 months to go. If you desperately don't want that baby thats a long time to carry it.

Sort of agree, but at the same time, going from "happy to have a baby" to "desperately not wanting to" within a few weeks seems pretty extreme, surely you're going to know within the first few weeks if you want to keep it or not? I guess if you found out the father was going behind your back or a serial rapist or something and wanted nothing to do with them then maybe? But that's hardly going to be a common scenario, and certainly doesn't seem to be the case here.

Begbie · 13 Jun 2023 at 12:00

Penfold101 said:
Rather that than 250,000 unwanted kids either being put into the adoption system or having parents who don't want them in the first place.

Accidental pregnancies occur - this is a fact of life and part of the human condition as sex is an enjoyable activity. If it wasn't, and was there purely for procreation, I would imagine we wouldn't have anywhere near as many unwanted pregnancies as we do. Unfortunately, in order for us to survive as a species, evolution saw fit to make it fun and thus encourage us to do it more.

Thankfully, we have the legal and medical framework in place to stop unplanned or unwanted children being forced into the world and will cover 99% of situations.

You just have to acknowledge that a pregnancy is always a possible outcome of sex whatever precautions are taken, and that's where education in secondary school comes into it. The sooner a male pill becomes available the better, as it'll give us one more tool in the prevention of unwanted pregnancies.

Or another tool in the spiral to the end of the human race.

Penfold101 · 13 Jun 2023 at 12:04

Begbie said:
Or another tool in the spiral to the end of the human race.

You're going to need to expand on that one.

Pawnless Endgame · 13 Jun 2023 at 12:28

So, there isn't enough taxpayers' money to adequately staff classrooms or run police forces effectively, but somehow there was enough money to put someone in the slammer for aborting a child who was still unborn? In my mind, it is only murder if the child is already born, because while still in the womb, the child isn't self-aware.

Shame on the person who reported this mother.

Haggisman · 13 Jun 2023 at 12:30

Pawnless Endgame said:
So, there isn't enough taxpayers' money to adequately staff classrooms or run police forces effectively, but somehow there was enough money to put someone in the slammer for aborting a child who was still unborn? In my mind, it is only murder if the child is already born, because while still in the womb, the child isn't self-aware.

Shame on the person who reported this mother.

Going by that logic, they probably still aren't "self-aware" for the first few weeks after being born either

tenofspades · 13 Jun 2023 at 12:33

I look it at as a really bad case of procrastination.

Penfold101 · 13 Jun 2023 at 12:34

Haggisman said:
Going by that logic, they probably still aren't "self-aware" for the first few weeks after being born either

First few years you mean.

fez · 13 Jun 2023 at 12:37

Pawnless Endgame said:
So, there isn't enough taxpayers' money to adequately staff classrooms or run police forces effectively, but somehow there was enough money to put someone in the slammer for aborting a child who was still unborn? In my mind, it is only murder if the child is already born, because while still in the womb, the child isn't self-aware.

Shame on the person who reported this mother.

Theres no point having laws if you ignore them and when is it OK to abort? Few days before the birth OK?

Babies don't go from being nothing to something through the act of being born. They get hiccups in the womb. They move about. They react to your movement, sounds, the mothers mood. They are very much living entities well before they come out. They don't suddenly become self-aware when they are born.

I assume you don't have any children?