Woolwich serious incident

scorza said:
So let's not do anything and wait for the next attack.
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Since when did I say that, you really are making yourself look silly now. Just because I don't agree with one thing doesn't mean I think we should do nothing.

badcompany said:
Known radicals need to be isolated and deprogrammed not facilitate the spread of poisonous beliefs.
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Yes, and that can be done with intelligence led investigation, not racial segregation.
 
Meh, they should have not given this any publicity at all. If extremists didn't get "recognition" for their actions, then they'd have no reason to do it.
 
Janesy B said:
Since when did I say that, you really are making yourself look silly now. Just because I don't agree with one thing doesn't mean I think we should do nothing.



Yes, and that can be done with intelligence led investigation, not racial segregation.
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Seperating known islamist prisoners is not racial segregation!!
 
I just watched the footage of the culprits running at the armed police and being shot. Fantastic reactions to deal with them so swiftly whilst seconds from being ambushed by these animals. Also, props for shooting to disable, rather than kill so that they can be punished for these crimes. Testament to their training, especially with little situations requiring this amount of force in our country in comparison with the states.

One point from the BBC:

"The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) reviewed CCTV footage from a local authority camera, and said two officers fired shots and one officer discharged a Taser. IPCC Commissioner Derrick Campbell said that at this stage the watchdog was "not pursuing any criminal or misconduct offences" against the officers."

Why would they even consider pursuing for these offences, they were called out to a deal with two armed and dangerous individuals at large that instantly demonstrated that they were willing to use further force against officers. Seems a little weird to even bring that point up? or is it standard procedure?
 
Booner! said:
One point from the BBC:

"The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) reviewed CCTV footage from a local authority camera, and said two officers fired shots and one officer discharged a Taser. IPCC Commissioner Derrick Campbell said that at this stage the watchdog was "not pursuing any criminal or misconduct offences" against the officers."

Why would they even consider pursuing for these offences, they were called out to a deal with two armed and dangerous individuals at large that instantly demonstrated that they were willing to use further force against officers. Seems a little weird to even bring that point up? or is it standard procedure?
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Standard procedure.
 
Gilly said:
It might as well be. It is stupid segregation; whether that be based on race or faith is largely irrelevant. The point still stands.
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Out of curiosity, do you class the Prison system and people locked up for crime to be part of society ?
 
badcompany said:
Why allow them to spread poison?
Nonces are segregated?
Don't like it don't do the crime.
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'Nonces' as you put it are segregated for their own safety.

Bobcat said:
Out of curiosity, do you class the Prison system and people locked up for crime to be part of society ?
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I'll exegise your curiousity, though hold it irrelevant as to the point I was making.

No, I don't, but our prison system is built on rehabilitation. That means that, for the vast majority of inmates they will become a part of society again at some point.

Enforcing segregation on them at this time is not exactly going to promote harmony outside, is it?
 
Gilly said:
'Nonces' as you put it are segregated for their own safety.



I'll exegise your curiousity, though hold it irrelevant as to the point I was making.

No, I don't, but our prison system is built on rehabilitation. That means that, for the vast majority of inmates they will become a part of society again at some point.

Enforcing segregation on them at this time is not exactly going to promote harmony outside, is it?
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Prisoners don't currently have the right to vote for the next MP when they are locked up, despite the fact that they will as you say be released at some point back into the community, so in that view they loose all rights to anything society based when they are locked up for crime against society.

I asked the question out of curiosity as you said "Why would you seek to perpetuate it in prison when you speak out against it in society? :/" as i class society and prison two completely different things, so wanted to see what your view was, it wasn't a loaded question, again i was just curious on your view as you seem to indicate that prison/society are equal.
 
bitslice said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ls-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

Old news really, where have you been?
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Hmm, a poll is a poll sure, and it is good to get some feedback...but, the sample size was 500, which is fairly small and even though 40% said they would back the introduction of Sharia Law in 'some parts' of Britain [Note : Some parts..ie: in their communities, NOT Sharia law for the whole of the UK] a slightly bigger proportion, 41% said they would not back it.

I wonder what the same poll would say if you asked ex-pats living in their insular communities in foreign lands if they would back the introduction of UK law/religion for their communities, separate to the law/religion of the land.
 
The Running Man said:
Strange way to look at things. The Muslims wanted help in Egypt, Iraq, Libya and we facilitated. Not really sure what complaints they can even have?
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Why help ? There are plenty of other countries in much worse state requiring desperate help whilst we turn a blind eye.

Help = effort = expenditure. To the lay this is the equivalent of working for nothing and none of us like to work for nothing right ? So why do it - why help ? Have we gone all soft for our Arab bredren or what ?

The point I'm making is that foreign policy is economically driven - no more no less. No one gives a donkey about religion.
 
And yet again its coming out that this guy was a follower of Anjem Choudary, when will they pick this idiot up and do everyone a favor.
 
UncleRuckus said:
Enjoying your multicultural utopia?
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Yup thanks for asking, thankfully racists are as rare as cleaver wielding nut jobs so its going nice for me, of all the bad neighbours I've had white chavs of one type or another have been worse than my current black and Asian neighbors plus I've never met a racist who wasn't thick.
 
Xordium said:
Firstly, thank you for replying and replying sensibly.

Yes, such environments can become heated when challenged but anyone who holds such strong beliefs will become heated when challenged. I am afraid it is as simple as I suggest. The more radical teachers are well known. I am sure the Muslim community can find the money and time to stop people perverting the message of their god. They find money for luxury items do they not? They find money for holidays and second cars etc. But they can't find the time and money to stop their god and his message being perverted? Sorry that just smacks of apathy and a lack of interest. You may not want to be the religious police but when you sit back and do very little to actively stop it as a community then outsiders can only assume either you partly agree with the sentiment b) are apathetic to the perverting of your religion and therefore it is n't really as important as you say and therefore why should its predominance drive favourable policy towards it, etc.

We do know who the more radical clerics are in this country.
We do know that the Muslims community has a massive amount of people in this country who don't believe the message those clerics spread.
Why do they not picket and challenge them like members of the Muslim community managed to find the time and expense to do in regards to the military action in Iraq and Afghanistan (as did most components of British society).

For what it's worth if any Muslim wanted to challenge people distorting their faith and asked me I'd happily stand by them because whilst I don't believe in their god I do believe on the whole their religion brings positive things to their life and the good things in it are worth fighting for and that anyone who believes something that strongly and the rightness of it should not be afraid to challenge those who pervert its message.
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Hi Xordium, let me start by telling you that I have attempted to challenge a radical Muslim before. It was somewhat interesting to see that this person was clueless on what he was doing and why he was doing it (thankfully he and his friends were caught by the police). It is also important to note that he was part of a distorted version of Islam. If this is the case with all or most radicals in the UK then it is not easy for your average Sunni Muslim to actively partake in such communities, nevermind voicing his opinion or challenging the higher-ups.

Another important point to understand is that radicals don't simply come out and tell you about their extremist ideas and intentions. It's like I said before, you'd have to be an active part of the community and you'd also have to know these people closely for many years. It is not that I do not want to be the religious police, it is that it is not feasible I'm afraid. There are many factors to take into consideration as well as the aforementioned. Furthermore, the perversion of religion is a terrible problem that takes place absolutely everywhere in the world, nevermind the UK, moderating and challenging such a thing is just too great a task and results cannot be guaranteed (your safety may not be guaranteed as well).

With regards to your final paragraph, I am with you, if any Muslim wanted to challenge people distorting their faith and asked me I'd happily stand by them because I'm sick and tired (I really am) of seeing these uneducated individuals cropping up from their small communities and committing such unexpected atrocities. I swear to you, I wish it was as simple as you are suggesting but there is no religious police, there is no group that can go around the UK challenging communities or groups, it just isn't realistic (especially since the educated ones usually have jobs and families to take care of).

I think the least that the UK Muslims could do - is to report any unusual or threatening behaviour (or intentions/beliefs) to their local police - Let them deal with it, it is safer and it is anonymous (plus the local police have the time and money I would assume since this is the 'war on terror' afterall).

This may sound like an essay full of excuses but in order for you to empathise with me, you'd have to try it out for yourself (as I have).

If you have more to say - please go right ahead. I don't mind looking into this growing issue a little further.
 
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Booner! said:
One point from the BBC:

"The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) reviewed CCTV footage from a local authority camera, and said two officers fired shots and one officer discharged a Taser. IPCC Commissioner Derrick Campbell said that at this stage the watchdog was "not pursuing any criminal or misconduct offences" against the officers."

Why would they even consider pursuing for these offences, they were called out to a deal with two armed and dangerous individuals at large that instantly demonstrated that they were willing to use further force against officers. Seems a little weird to even bring that point up? or is it standard procedure?
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Yeah I thought that. Yes the investigation only took a day, but even that sounds like a complete waste of time and money!
 
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