Woolwich serious incident

n111ck · 24 May 2013 at 23:06

Craterloads said:
Let me get this right, you think in war you can pick and choose which country it takes place in as long as it isnt your own?

Its ludicrous that you think that one country can say hey ok where going to enter war with so and so country but please can we just do it in your country, please dont attack ours back?

What planet are you living on.

So we can use UK based soldiers to locate and 'deal with' any extremists here? You might be onto something there...

Craterloads · 24 May 2013 at 23:06

Gilly said:
Don't hold your breath

I wish I'd stopped reading there. It's all you need to say.

You disgust me.

What disgusts me is you can’t condemn evils on both side, you just see the picture from your own small view. Let me guess, the good fight...

arctine · 24 May 2013 at 23:07

Craterloads said:
Explain, if your reffereing to the US being solely behind the drones i think you will find the British ioerate drones too. In fact drones are operated from right here in the UK attacking afghans.

Surveillance drones you mean?

Castiel · 24 May 2013 at 23:08

mattyg said:
If those murderers thought they were soldiers fighting a war and that the soldier that they killed was a legitimate target. Then try them in a military court and if found guilty send them to a military prison.

See how they deal with that

They could have been arrested (detained) under terror legislation also, yet they were arrested (detained) or at least will be when they are fit enough to be questioned under PACE criminal rules...clearly it is not thought that these men were legitimate (if there is such a thing) terrorists, they are simply murderers who sought to justify their actions through political means.

The argument on whether the Iraq war was illegal or not is irrelevant as one act doesn't justify the other, and the issues within Iraq are as much the responsibility of the Islamic Militias and Insurgencies as it is the Allied Forces, it can be argued that without intervention the people of Iraq could have been in a far worse position and it is mainly because of the sectarian and political actions of the Islamic factions in Iraq that so many people have died and continue to die in that region as without that insurgency, a stable and progressive nation could have been returned to its people intact after the downfall of the Hussein leadership. Iraq is also not the 'land or the People' of these two men. That line of argument is just another irrelevant and pointless quest to justify the unjustifiable by those that wish to legitimise such actions.

Jokester · 24 May 2013 at 23:08

Craterloads said:
Explain, if your reffereing to the US being solely behind the drones i think you will find the British ioerate drones too. In fact drones are operated from right here in the UK attacking afghans.

Yeah we have drones, but we still keep to the same rules of engagement that the guys on the ground obey.

Xordium · 24 May 2013 at 23:12

Craterloads said:
Explain, if your reffereing to the US being solely behind the drones i think you will find the British ioerate drones too. In fact drones are operated from right here in the UK attacking afghans.

Which are operated completely different: the UK drones have human oversight using ROE the US drones strike on the basis of an algorithm. The same method used very differently and getting very different outcomes.

You are also missing the fact the the UK are monitoring the actions of the US drone strike program and actively attempting to get them to change their method of choice or at least to alter the weighting in their algorithms.

Craterloads · 24 May 2013 at 23:12

Jokester said:
Yeah we have drones, but we still keep to the same rules of engagement that the guys on the ground obey.

50 civilians were killed in follow-up strikes when they had gone to help victims and more than 20 civilians have also been attacked in deliberate strikes on funerals and mourners.”

http://rt.com/news/drones-us-al-qaeda-militants-649/

We target people in training camps routinely, in no combat situations. This man was a serving soldier residing at a training camp (barracks)

War goes two ways

Gilly · 24 May 2013 at 23:12

mattyg said:
Your probably right but is there something WE could do to keep it in the news.

We as in the public not OCuk

Why not us as OcUK?

Come up with a logo that symbolises peace and unity, and at the same time condemns the extremist and the extremist sympathisers alike, and it'll mean something.

The time is right for it.

Craterloads said:
What disgusts me is you can’t condemn evils on both side, you just see the picture from your own small view. Let me guess, the good fight...

Evil is evil and must be condemned wherever it is perpetrated.

You will find that has been my message throughout. I did not seek to explain away the actions and evils of any allies by excusing them using the evils of extremists like the two recent perpetrators.

Jokester · 24 May 2013 at 23:13

Craterloads said:
What disgusts me is you can’t condemn evils on both side, you just see the picture from your own small view. Let me guess, the good fight...

Gilly said:
The soldier that committed that awful act has been discharged dishonourably and jailed, has he not?

Not for nearly long enough, mind. Nor did he kill the boy.

Hmmm.

C.R.A.Z.Y · 24 May 2013 at 23:13

The Running Man said:
Where is Islam 'working'?

On the whole it's 'working' pretty fine right here in Great Britain, the vast majority of Muslims in the U.K are peaceful decent human-beings who harm no one.
If you are going to start blaming religion for the violence and bloodshed on our streets then I suggest you at least get the correct religion in your cross-hairs , the christian conflict between the protestants and catholics was/is far worse with over 3,600+ people dead!

Craterloads · 24 May 2013 at 23:13

arctine said:
Surveillance drones you mean?

With 500lb missiles (cant remember if hellfire ones or not) hardly surveillance

Twirlywoos · 24 May 2013 at 23:14

mattyg said:
Weren't tens of thousands of people being killed at the hands of the tyrant that was in control though. Not that it makes it better but.

Yes they were but that's for the Muslims to sort out between themselves. If the West did intervene then did they do it for Humanitarian purposes and to protect the people of the land or to just build another settlement in the Middle East?

Xordium said:
They seem to be quite confused though to what their people and lands are - they refer to both as home.

They were speaking figuratively.

Xordium · 24 May 2013 at 23:14

Craterloads said:
http://rt.com/news/drones-us-al-qaeda-militants-649/

We target people in training camps routinely, in no combat situations. This man was a serving soldier residing at a training camp (barracks)

War goes two ways

Err your link is about US drone strikes and therefore not relevant. Might want to check your sources for your propaganda. You are starting to sound far too sympathetic if you ask me.

Craterloads · 24 May 2013 at 23:15

Jokester said:
Hmmm.

I'm not talking about that soldier or in fact criminal actions by our forces. I'm talking about legitmate state sanctioned act to defeat/kill the enemy. Training camps are a green light for us.

Jokester · 24 May 2013 at 23:15

Craterloads said:
http://rt.com/news/drones-us-al-qaeda-militants-649/

We target people in training camps routinely, in no combat situations. This man was a serving soldier residing at a training camp (barracks)

War goes two ways

I think I said something about this earlier.

Gilly · 24 May 2013 at 23:15

majnu said:
They were speaking figuratively.

How do you know what they were thinking?

Xordium · 24 May 2013 at 23:16

majnu said:
They were speaking figuratively.

No, they are confused and completely brainwashed. Our troops, our women. They don't know which was their head is spinning they have become so wrapped in manipulative rubbish.

Jokester · 24 May 2013 at 23:16

Craterloads said:
I'm not talking about that soldier or in fact criminal actions by our forces. I'm talking about legitmate state sanctioned act to defeat/kill the enemy. Training camps are a green light for us.

Do you even understand why we are in Afghanistan?

Xordium · 24 May 2013 at 23:17

Craterloads said:
Training camps are a green light for us.

Finally you've got it training camps are a green light for (the) US.

Craterloads · 24 May 2013 at 23:17

Xordium said:
Err your link is about US drone strikes and therefore not relevant. Might want to check your sources for your propaganda. You are starting to sound far too sympathetic if you ask me.

A) we allied with the US in this war. In it together
B) The UK have carried out hundreds of drone strikes.

The RAF confirmed it had begun operating its Reaper unmanned aerial vehicles in the skies over Afghanistan from the base earlier this week, with a series of raids flown by 13 Squadron.

The drones were previously operated from a US Air Force base in Nevada, in missions to support coalition ground forces in Afghanistan.

The drones carry 500lb bombs and Hellfire missiles for use in air strikes against insurgents. They are piloted remotely, but launched and landed with human help at Kandahar airbase.

Protesters are urging the government to stop its deployment, claiming the high civilian death toll makes their use unacceptable