Considering this is a US led war and it’s their terrorist list we are playing by. Do you not agree the US opinion regarding terrorist in that region is not one that can be considered fair or representative given how they change that list depending on their foreign policy at the time? One including the the status of the Taliban themselves.
Why ignore them Afghans and only listen to the ones who say what we want to hear? Surely if you want Afghanistan to move forward we need to see the views of them objectively?
For one I did not say ignore anyone, I said don't judge your opinion only on one section of opinion. Secondly the US do not classify the Taliban as Terrorists. Thirdly, the list (for want of a better word) doesn't change simply because of foreign policy, foreign policy changes because of the actions of these groups and their status changes accordingly. And finally I was not speaking about Afghan or the region in isolation with reference to how we define the status of certain groups, but across the globe and we are not always in compliance with the US, neither are many other nations...undermining your assertion that the US defines everyone's foreign policies for them.
What is it then if not an occupation of 13 years?
It was an UNSC intervention into a civil war and as the acronym ISAF suggests, it is assistance and training to assure the security and stability of the country and assist with the reconstruction and training of the Afghanistan Army.
It seems you are unwilling to acknowledge many Afghans have a legitimate cause of freeing themselves of western forces because it somehow undermines the legitimacy of the campaign? Can you not see why they may wish to do this?
I acknowledge that a section of the Afghan population do indeed think this way, but I don't base my opinion on it in isolation and strive to be objective and not fall into the trap of associating one sections opinion and feelongs with that of everyone.
No one is denying that a large portion of civilian deaths are attributed to the Taliban and their supporters but that doesn’t take away or change the fact of the many atrocities committed by western forces. Because the Taliban does bad, doesn’t somehow make disappear the actions of the western forces or change the feelings of the locals. Is it wrong to want to be free of military presence of outsiders?
This illustrates what I was saying above...you attribute the feelings of some as being the feeling of all.
They did vote for someone else the last time but it is felt the US needed someone who they could work with whilst stationed in the country. It was widely reported regarding the mass corruption in the last elections. Not to mention CIA money being paid in the hundreds of millions to Afghani officials (also reported) The corruption has been highly documented by all reputable agencies, running from the top to low level police commanders. Accused escape jailtime for all sorts of crimes including rape/murder and in cases return to positions of power.
That is a misrepresentation of the facts. Not the corruption or the CIA tactics, but the fact that Karzai was 'installed' by the ISAF..that is simply not true. His opponent dropped out therefore the UN mandated run-off election that was forced on Karzai due to accusations of vote rigging and intimidation (from both sides, and especially from the Taliban, which caused serious issues with turnout) was invalidated.
That there is corruption and widespread infiltration into both the Govenment and the Afghan Security Forces is a given, this doesn't imply that the alternatives are preferable or indeed better, neither should it deter us from trying to improve and give the Afghan people the opportunity of self determination free from tyranny.
Two wrongs dont make a right? The ordinary Aghans are stuck between a rock and a hard place. It doesnt take much imagination where this leads to. Maybe they want rid of all, corrupt western backed government, taliban and western forces. Do they not have the right to fight for thier freedom?
They have the right to self determination and to express themselves accordingly...however, if they join the militias and terror organisations and try to assert that expression through the medium of terror against civilians then they do not have the right to that. Their freedoms do not override the life's or freedoms of others to live in peace, free from intimidation and fear.
Of course it not as simple as that. He is unpopular and is corrupt, just look at his brother and what he does. The problem is corruption all the way to the top, documented. The elections was marred with vote rigging and pressure was applied for the opposition to step down.
The main pressure actually came from the militias and the Taliban to stop people voting at all, and they used intimidation and fear to do so. It is not as simple or as black and white as you suggest.
Relying on reputable sources including BBC journalists, local Afghans, occupying soldiers and not just from the one documentary.
Yet you only rely upon those that forward your own opinon, rather than listening to everyone and objectively forming an opinon based on that. Sorry Craterlads, but I feel that your own prejudices form your opinion and you search for supporting opinon or misrepresent opinon in order to support that prejudice.
The situation is foobar that is for sure, but it is not entirely as you describe.
Anyway this is getting circular and forgive me but I have a wife who is complaining I need to do stuff, so I will have to leave this fr now. Enjoy your weekend Craterloads, stay out of trouble.
![Smile :) :)](/styles/default/xenforo/vbSmilies/Normal/smile.gif)
Last edited: