Woolwich serious incident

Shayper said:
No muslims I personally know hold those beliefs. It's more the extremists - much the same way that extremists from every Abrahamic religion hold those beliefs.
Click to expand...

Would you say your socio economic status (being at university) would lead you to know a different (higher) calibre of person, than perhaps the average Joe Bloggs?

Also, I can understand certain beliefs being taken out of context, but is there a baseline minimum that will have to be adhered to? Looking historically, it seems that whenever Islam gets its claws into a place, it doesn't let go through its stranglehold of religion and state interferance.

What will make Britain any different, especially since it's 'decadent' ways are already alienating to a large part of the community. (Something I sort of agree with).
 
Locky said:
so your saying that religion isn't the no1 problem in the world and no1 cause of most of the trouble today.
Click to expand...

Come on, put a bit of effort in. YOU'RE.

Answering the question though, no, it's people.

When we start blaming religion for the actions of people, we start offloading the responsibility of people's actions on to the intangible.

This is not a place you want to go, because you just cheapen and take away from the awful things that *people* have done.

Humans have proven time and time again that they can and will fight over anything, religion, land, simple opinions and ideologies, It's part of human nature.
 
spoffle said:
That's because they're not genuine concerns. These people typically aren't intelligent enough to have concerns outside of "I don't like".



Islam isn't a sentient being, despite you talking about as if it was.

Islam cannot not integrate because of these. Muslims however can.

It's just a religion. Why not base Christianity on the likes of Westboro baptist church and sperge about how Christianity cannot integrate.

It's not the religion that's incompatible, it's people.

Its (not it's) dislike of women again is rubbish, it's not a sentient being, it cannot express like or dislike.

For those who actually have an understanding of the topic they are trying to discuss, they will know that hating women and removing their rights is not an Islamic trait, but a cultural one based upon the backward cultures of some people who follow the religion simply because that's the religion of flavour from where they are from.

You seem to struggle with critical thinking, may I offer you a helmet and a saver pack of adult sized nappies?
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of the cultural aspects of wahabbism making it incredibly draconian about women and the like, but the fact doesn't change that it is inspired quite easily by the religious texts of Islam.

How can Muslims fully intergrate into a liberal modern society where lots of the values go against their core beliefs?

And saying it's "just a religion" really isn't helpful, as religions are incredibly powerful motivating factors, hence why we had two guys who were happy to butcher someone and run at armed police.......

Anyway, I've got to prepare for my exam, I will reply upon my triumphant return.
 
sports_brah said:
Would you say your socio economic status (being at university) would lead you to know a different (higher) calibre of person, than perhaps the average Joe Bloggs?
Click to expand...

Possibly, but I also know a lot of people outside university. You meet a lot of random people in my line of work :)

Also, I can understand certain beliefs being taken out of context, but is there a baseline minimum that will have to be adhered to? Looking historically, it seems that whenever Islam gets its claws into a place, it doesn't let go through its stranglehold of religion and state interferance.
Click to expand...

Much the same could be said about Christianity, or in fact religion in general. I'm not disagreeing with you, but it isn't just a problem with Islam.

What will make Britain any different, especially since it's 'decadent' ways are already alienating to a large part of the community. (Something I sort of agree with).
Click to expand...

Well, that's a problem with the individuals. Again, a proportion of my muslim friends don't drink or smoke, but they have no problem with me doing so and in fact come to parties and enjoy it without doing so or judging anyone.
 
OldCoals said:
Their concerns are about radical Islamists, now I absolutely agree that they do not express their concerns correctly.
Click to expand...

Do you think such scales of protest are necessary for the 1 death in the last 5 years at the hand of extremists? When i comparison 104 people are killed every year by their partners or former partner, don’t you think their time and effort may be more productive focused on partner killing locals?
 
OldCoals said:
Their concerns are about radical Islamists, now I absolutely agree that they do not express their concerns correctly.
Click to expand...

Their concerns are about radical muslims purely because muslims are typically non-white. See where this is going?

The same way that the White Supremacist groups in the USA are only interested in crimes when they're committed by a non-white person.

They're simply uninterested in the terrible things that white people do.
 
Craterloads said:
Do you think such scales of protest are necessary for the 1 death in the last 5 years at the hand of extremists? When i comparison 104 people are killed every year by their partners or former partner, don’t you think their time and effort may be more productive focused on partner killing locals?
Click to expand...

Lets make this absolutely clear, I don't support the EDL and I do not agree with their actions.

It is far to simply to look at it as one death. The very nature of the killing is extreme, you just have to look at the coverage to see this.

A young man was butchered to death on the streets of London, the offenders then gave a speech about their reasons for doing this.

I think it is understandable that such an extreme act will lead a few to react as they did, that however does not mean that I condone these actions.
 
Ahhh Woolwich, used to be alright about 20 years ago, I used to love the market. Nowadays, everyone I know avoids it at all costs because it's a complete hole.
 
Shayper said:
Possibly, but I also know a lot of people outside university. You meet a lot of random people in my line of work :)



Much the same could be said about Christianity, or in fact religion in general. I'm not disagreeing with you, but it isn't just a problem with Islam.



Well, that's a problem with the individuals. Again, a proportion of my muslim friends don't drink or smoke, but they have no problem with me doing so and in fact come to parties and enjoy it without doing so or judging anyone.
Click to expand...

In response to sports brah, this was pretty much what I was going to say myself.

Personally, I don't smoke or drink, and in fact I dislike the notion of drinking alcohol more than the Muslims I know.

My reasons and feelings aren't remotely religiously motivated as I am not religious, it's just something I find distasteful.

In fact, some of my Muslim friends drink and smoke weed and enjoy parties more than I do.

Yeah, I know it kinda cheapens the point of them committing to a religion to then ignore and dismiss the parts they don't like, but then that's what most religious people do anyway.

Outside of that though, as I said to another, to blame a religion for the abhorrent actions of others cheapens and offloads responsibility for those actions on to the intangible.

I personally feel much more comfortable blaming an individual for their actions, than blaming an intangible belief system that people try to claim made them do it.

People who can't take responsibility for the stuff they do are plain crazy.

Craterloads said:
Do you think such scales of protest are necessary for the 1 death in the last 5 years at the hand of extremists? When i comparison 104 people are killed every year by their partners or former partner, don’t you think their time and effort may be more productive focused on partner killing locals?
Click to expand...

We best get relationships banned then, as they killin' people all up in hur.
 
Locky said:
Same goes for the moronic Muslims taking to the streets burning the union jack, chanting crap about the UK, crap about the police, crap about soldiers, having massive loud speakers on their mosques spouting racial hatred, they should be "castrated" too.
Click to expand...

Agreed but if we can't fix our own what right does it give us to "fix "other countries.

What will not fix the problem is standing on soapboxes spouting hatred.

It's a very difficult issue and frankly I don't know the first thing about how to fix it and keep all parties happy (including the EU court of human Rights). Very difficult one for Cameron to deal with imo.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom