**XBOX ONE** Official Thread

[ps3ud0]

Digital pc game sales surpassed retail sales several years ago. So yes digital distribution is the king on pc and doesn't need pushing, it's well established and increasing its lead even further.

Im confused when did that ever mean ubiquitous? . You cant say its replaced traditional distribution when it hasnt yet, it might be in the majority but for what you suggest and want MS want you need movement to be whole and complete...

ps3ud0

 

[Glaucus]

I never said ubiquitous

 

[Davey_Pitch]

The questions is, why do we have to go digital? And if that's the case then make it competitive like Steam. The fact is that neither the consoles are competitive on their stores especially with 3rd party games unlike on Steam. So we are a little concerned that going digital = getting screwed.

At present I probably buy 30 games through the year, without resale this number would be more than half which means I get less gaming and enjoy less games. That is not what I want...

It might become very competitive like Steam, that's the part we don't know yet. My guess is that's what MS are ultimately aiming for, but whether it'll end up that way is another thing.

 

[ps3ud0]

I never said ubiquitous

No I said that, but then you were saying that discs appeared to you as legacy, so we are spiltting hairs tbh.

Your original point was that the restrictions MS are trying to force are their method to move to a digital distribution, Ive just argued that I dont think the world at large is ready for that, nor do I think it will be in the short-term. I just dont think the digitial distribution war should be fought on consoles. I think there are better, more suitable platforms, for 100% digital distribution like PC

I just dont think we are ready to lose the physical disc anytime soon, seems to bring a lot of other things with it (for a start, the implication of licensing media rather than having ownership of it). These are difficult things for some to accept and the main reasoning why MS are having such troubles with their new policies. At least PC gamers are well down that road, but I just dont think the audience of console gamers = the audience of PC gamers...

EDIT: I think weve gone OT for long enough, just too hard to guess when this will happen and if MS are right to impose these restrictions now ahead of that...

ps3ud0

 

[Glaucus]

How is the world not ready for it? Just look at pc gaming.

Everyone was the same when steam was released, but look at the market now. People will quickly adapt to the ease if it all, just like pc gamers did. It takes a long time for a full change to happen. But the life of the console is usually around 8years that's a huge change in tech over that period of time.

 

[ps3ud0]

How is the world not ready for it? Just look at pc gaming.

Everyone was the same when steam was released, but look at the market now. People will quickly adapt to the ease if it all, just like pc gamers did. It takes a long time for a full change to happen. But the life of the console is usually around 8years that's a huge change in tech over that period of time.

Well its taken Steam nearly 10 years to get where it is now and that not full conversion to the model. I dont think ISPs nor game companies are ready for a fully realised digital distribution market, just look at what happened with Diablo 3 and Sim Citys authentication servers when they were released and they are run by companies that dont know what they are doing...

So its doesnt sound like the technologies are in place and it doesnt sound like the restrictions such distributions attract are digestable by the masses looking at the reaction to MSs policies, Im sure thats been exacerbated by their unclear message, but its clear what most dont seem to want even if that isnt what MS are exactly offering...

Ive not actually seen you back up why you think Im so wrong to be pessimistic, just hyperbole. So while you think it will just happen, I just think theres several obstacles to muddle through and I just dont see that happening anytime soon, I concede its likely to happen within this set of consoles lifetime, but I dont see MSs approach of a carrotless stick really helping matters, nor do I think they should be 'applauded' for such policies because we are heading that way anyway so its inevitable...

ps3ud0

 

[Glaucus]

It's not a full digital system is it. There are still discs available on xbone.
Who applauding them?

They be set a system out that is for the life of the console.
Digital distribution has in many markets been accepted by the masses. Just because it took steam 10years, does not mean it will take consoles 10years. Once one does it and people get use to it. Ie iTunes/steam etc. the adaption of newer services will be faster.

You seem to think pc retail is massively bigger than digital which it isn't, that why I think you are wrong.

September 2010 article.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverc...-surpass-retail-unit-sales-by-3m-says-survey/ it talks about both sides of the coin, but these are the interesting parts for this debate.

NPD Group said on Monday that during the first six months of this year in the U.S., 11.2 million PC games (full games like Electronic Arts’ Battlefield: Bad Company 2) were purchased online through digital download compared to 8.2 million physical units purchased at physical retail stores during the same period, according to its survey.

So how you can say the mass public isn't ready for it is frankly baffling, several markets have already showen how people are ready for it.


And this has an interesting article
http://uk.gamespot.com/features/the...e-driving-the-future-of-games-retail-6396713/

Though retailers like GameStop and industry analysts like EEDAR's Jesse Divnich remain measured in their observations of the rise of digital distribution and its impact on the future of brick-and-mortar video game retail (Divnich told GameSpot that, while digital distribution remains a continued and growing threat to physical retail, he believes there will always be room for one mass-market specialized game retailer), some key players in the video game publishing world have been less confident about game retailers' ability to survive.

In August this year, EA Games executive vice president Patrick Soderlund acknowledged that though the majority of revenue in the industry still comes from packaged goods, the future will see distribution via brick-and-mortar retail outlets lose viability "sooner than people think". Specifically, in less than ten years time, according to Soderlund.

Clearly stating that his comments were personal and not those of EA as a whole, Soderlund said that he believes the new generation of gamers may not have the same enthusiasm for collecting physical games as previous generations.

EA, whose digital business reached US$1.2 billion in its most recent fiscal year, remains convinced that the lion's share of its revenue will soon stem from digital products. Earlier this year, EA COO Peter Moore stated that though the publisher will never abandon physical media while there is still consumer demand for it, its digital revenues could be just two to three years away from surpassing its boxed gaming business.

The rise of digital has also kept other game publishers in high spirits. In March this year, Ubisoft posted its full-year financial results showing a return to profitability thanks to a doubling of its digital and online sales, a 111 percent jump year-on-year.

Earlier this year, Codemasters cofounder David Darling took things a step further by saying the next-generation of consoles must embrace a digital-only future or face extinction. Darling pointed to digital distribution as a model that gives publishers access to a "worldwide marketplace", while side-stepping the often-expensive processes involved with the distribution of boxed games.

"Sony and Microsoft cannot let the retailers dictate game prices going forwards if they want to break free from the current over-priced model," Darling said. "If hardware manufacturers do not manage this transition soon, they will be overtaken and left behind by companies who are embracing digital distribution wholly and completely. Companies like Apple and Google are not tied to brick-and-mortar retailers with shackles, and are not being held back by them."

 

[Fr0dders]

Well its taken Steam nearly 10 years to get where it is now and that not full conversion to the model. I dont think ISPs nor game companies are ready for a fully realised digital distribution market, just look at what happened with Diablo 3 and Sim Citys authentication servers when they were released and they are run by companies that dont know what they are doing...

So its doesnt sound like the technologies are in place and it doesnt sound like the restrictions such distributions attract are digestable by the masses looking at the reaction to MSs policies, Im sure thats been exacerbated by their unclear message, but its clear what most dont seem to want even if that isnt what MS are exactly offering...

Thats because most don't realise what MS is offering. All they've heard is the negative stuff on the gaming blogs.

The really cool stuff like moving away from disc based gaming (in a few years time its likely that Xbox One could be completely digital for everybody with a half decent internet connection)

The fact you will be able to let your friends and family use your shared games is amazing. No longer will household members have to buy 2 copies of the same game if they both want to play it.

These are really good things, but nobody is talking about them and instead focusing on the negative.

 

[DBT85]

No, but the news, even if it's bad news, should come from people who are interested in the product.

Why would you go into a thread about a product you don't like, and will not buy?

Rubbish. The news should come from anyone that spots it. I may have no intention of buying an XBONE, but I am abreast of the situation regarding the DRM, the online, the hardware etc, probably more so than many in the thread.

So I shouldn't post in here if I don't want one? Even when my post is helping someone? Or am I only allowed to post if it's good news? Would you care if I came in and posted that MS has abandoned all DRM and that you get a free kitten with every purchase?

I have no intention of buying a Ferrari but if I see that they are catching fire when turning left then I'll post about it.

 

[Soulja]

Thats because most don't realise what MS is offering. All they've heard is the negative stuff on the gaming blogs.

The really cool stuff like moving away from disc based gaming (in a few years time its likely that Xbox One could be completely digital for everybody with a half decent internet connection)

The fact you will be able to let your friends and family use your shared games is amazing. No longer will household members have to buy 2 copies of the same game if they both want to play it.

These are really good things, but nobody is talking about them and instead focusing on the negative.

But can only one person play it at a time? I do agree it is a good idea and I like that you can share your library with up to 10 people. If I was to get one I'd be asking a few of my trusted xbox friends if they want to chip in £10 each time a sp game came out that we wanted to play.

 

[Simi]

The thing that makes the new Xbox totally different to Steam is that Steam came with Half Life 2 as it's DRM - it wasn't something we had to pay £430 for. This uproar is also completely different... people complained about Steam because it didn't work very well, remember the 'Steam(ing pile of ****) downloading' gifs that everyone on the internet had as their forums sigs?
It's taken a long time and a lot of amazing sales for Valve to get Steam accepted (and now lauded) and all we need to use it is something that most homes already have, certainly something that most Gamers have, even if it's main job isn't gaming - yes I'm talking about a PC.
Microsoft are asking us to pay £420 for their (heavily) restricted hardware, they're not offering us a free digital download platform, it's nothing like Steam.

Also, when people disagree with something a company is doing, it doesn't make them a fanboy or a troll - I'm certainly neither, I'm a gamer and will go where the games are but I won't hand over my rights and I will tell people what I think, as we all should.
I'm actually sad to see a new console thread turn into a debate about our rights as consumers but the blame for that lies squarely at Microsoft's feet.

 

[phil_t98]

The thing that makes the new Xbox totally different to Steam is that Steam came with Half Life 2 as it's DRM - it wasn't something we had to pay £430 for. This uproar is also completely different... people complained about Steam because it didn't work very well, remember the 'Steam(ing pile of ****) downloading' gifs that everyone on the internet had as their forums sigs?
It's taken a long time and a lot of amazing sales for Valve to get Steam accepted (and now lauded) and all we need to use it is something that most homes already have, certainly something that most Gamers have, even if it's main job isn't gaming - yes I'm talking about a PC.
Microsoft are asking us to pay £420 for their (heavily) restricted hardware, they're not offering us a free digital download platform, it's nothing like Steam.

Also, when people disagree with something a company is doing, it doesn't make them a fanboy or a troll - I'm certainly neither, I'm a gamer and will go where the games are but I won't hand over my rights and I will tell people what I think, as we all should.
I'm actually sad to see a new console thread turn into a debate about our rights as consumers but the blame for that lies squarely at Microsoft's feet.

well you didn't have to pay £420 for but you had to buy your PC to use it, abd there not forcing you to buy digital, you can go the shop and buy a disc if you want

 

[Fr0dders]

But can only one person play it at a time? I do agree it is a good idea and I like that you can share your library with up to 10 people. If I was to get one I'd be asking a few of my trusted xbox friends if they want to chip in £10 each time a sp game came out that we wanted to play.

Damn right and I'll be doing the same.

The T&C says

"You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time."

So you can always play your own games, and then somebody from your shared group play at the same time as you. So thats 2 people at a time.

Not great if you want all 10 of your friends to play the same game together at once for the price of one, but thats unreasonable so no surprise that won't work.

But if you've bought a game you think he'll like, he can play it from your shared library for free forever providing nobody else in the family / friends group wants to play it at the same time. Thats a pretty awesome feature if you want other people on your friends list to buy the same games as you.

Just let them play it on your library for free to see for themselves how good it is.

As usual MS has completely botched selling the Xbox One.

It's taken a long time and a lot of amazing sales for Valve to get Steam accepted (and now lauded) and all we need to use it is something that most homes already have, certainly something that most Gamers have, even if it's main job isn't gaming - yes I'm talking about a PC.
Microsoft are asking us to pay £420 for their (heavily) restricted hardware, they're not offering us a free digital download platform, it's nothing like Steam.

But MS can turn the delivery of Xbox One games into something like Steam, which cuts out people like game that shaft us on trade ins by giving us £5 for a game they sell for £20, and gives us great download prices.

It's not going to happen on launch day, but i see their vision and i like where its going.

 

[Simi]

well you didn't have to pay £420 for but you had to buy your PC to use it, abd there not forcing you to buy digital, you can go the shop and buy a disc if you want

I already had a PC when Steam (and the awesome Half Life 2) came out.
Surely you understand the difference between the two situations?

 

[ps3ud0]

Digital distribution has in many markets been accepted by the masses. Just because it took steam 10years, does not mean it will take consoles 10years. Once one does it and people get use to it. Ie iTunes/steam etc. the adaption of newer services will be faster.

It was your own remark regards how easily it happened for PC gamers which I felt it neccessary to comment on how long its taken, Im only using your logic in an earlier argument...

Everyone was the same when steam was released, but look at the market now. People will quickly adapt to the ease if it all, just like pc gamers did.

Also when were PC gamers typical of the mass market? Ive never thought of them like that, maybe if you are member of a forum like this but I wouldnt say what theyve embraced in Steam is what seems to be happening with MS and its policy, especially if you think the mass market is already primed to accept it due to iTunes and other forms of digital distribution.

You seem to think pc retail is massively bigger than digital which it isn't, that why I think you are wrong.

September 2010 article.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverc...-surpass-retail-unit-sales-by-3m-says-survey/ it talks about both sides of the coin, but these are the interesting parts for this debate.

So how you can say the mass public isn't ready for it is frankly baffling, several markets have already showen how people are ready for it.


And this has an interesting article
http://uk.gamespot.com/features/the...e-driving-the-future-of-games-retail-6396713/

When have I ever said PC retail is bigger that PC digital distribution? . Ive just argued that we arent anywhere near as ready as you seem to think and your quote seems to back that up, I dont think we will see that acceptance in the next 5 years nor does an exec VP at EA within what 9 years now and thats within a console market thats heavily slanted towards disc-based games still.

ps3ud0

 

[Soulja]

Damn right and I'll be doing the same.

The T&C says

"You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time."

So you can always play your own games, and then somebody from your shared group play at the same time as you. So thats 2 people at a time.

Not great if you want all 10 of your friends to play the same game together at once for the price of one, but thats unreasonable so no surprise that won't work.

But if you've bought a game you think he'll like, he can play it from your shared library for free forever providing nobody else in the family / friends group wants to play it at the same time. Thats a pretty awesome feature if you want other people on your friends list to buy the same games as you.

Just let them play it on your library for free to see for themselves how good it is.

As usual MS has completely botched selling the Xbox One.

That's actually pretty good. So for MP games such as COD and BF you could go halves with a guy and both be able to play at the same time.

 

[i-bert]

Rubbish. The news should come from anyone that spots it. I may have no intention of buying an XBONE, but I am abreast of the situation regarding the DRM, the online, the hardware etc, probably more so than many in the thread.

So I shouldn't post in here if I don't want one? Even when my post is helping someone? Or am I only allowed to post if it's good news? Would you care if I came in and posted that MS has abandoned all DRM and that you get a free kitten with every purchase?

I have no intention of buying a Ferrari but if I see that they are catching fire when turning left then I'll post about it.

The thing is, these people are constantly searching for bad things about it (although he posted his FIRST positive article after I called him up on it).

So please, don't try and act like these people are "helping" anyone. They are trolling, and they must have an extremely sad existence if they spend their time on a personal vendetta against MS.

I have absolutely no intention of buying a Wii U. and do you know what? I have NEVER been in a thread about one either.

If you have a problem with the way gaming is heading, start a new thread about it. I'm sure there are plenty of people in here who are on the fence that are quite capable of posting the exact same news, either good or bad.

 

[phil_t98]

I already had a PC when Steam (and the awesome Half Life 2) came out.
Surely you understand the difference between the two situations?

Well in that case carry on using your 360/ps4 and dont buy a new console. Things move on. If you use you pc for gaming then am sure you will of spent more than 420quid in the last 10 years to keep up gaming. I dont see 420 as that expensive to play games and not have to upgrade for 5 or so years

 

[Macky]

That's actually pretty good. So for MP games such as COD and BF you could go halves with a guy and both be able to play at the same time.

Not sure why MS/Activision would let you get away with that. Would mean them losing a sale and losing money. Not the way they operate!

 

[Soulja]

Not sure why MS/Activision would let you get away with that. Would mean them losing a sale and losing money. Not the way they operate!

I thought the same. There must be some sort of limitation to the sharing. Possibly only for SP and not MP.