We don't really know how clever this eSRAM stuff is, how much ground it makes up etc. so hard to jump to conclusions yet. On paper the PS4 has more out and out horsepower, but so did the PS3 & it didn't exactly effect the 360's popularity did it.
**XBOX ONE** Official Thread
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Good question and dunno... there's been some leaks but the only official statement from Microsoft so far has been in terms of GPU power X1 is "8 times more powerful than 360".
Given 360s stone age GPU and still reasonable performance even now, no idea how that may relate to a PC comparison. The only other clue was the EA exec said COD: Ghosts would run at 1920x1080 @ a solid 60fps but without any view of AA etc it's hard to work out what that equates to.
Soldato
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eSRAM is going to take lots of baby sitting by devs, moving stuff into and out of the fast RAM to get best performance, where's PS4 just has fast RAM.
The big difference between the current gen and the next gen is that the PS4 and Xbox One are both basically the same to program for, but just with the PS4 being a fair bit more powerful so you're going to see the PS4 pulling off better looking/performing games without any problem.
That's an interesting article, it seems Sony's gamble with GDDR5 panned out wonderfully (providing there aren't shortages).
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Not clever enough, it might make up some of the memory bandwidth, hell lets say all, but that then doesnt even account for the GPU CU differences, something that wont even be bridged with overclocking. eSRAM requires managment to make it efficient as a GPU cache and unless MS write some very clever algorithms then it will be up to developers to ensure how they talk to the GPU takes account of this. I think thats the problem, like the Cell its gonna take some effort in working out how to do things...
ps3ud0
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Soldato
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1) Microsoft (and supported by Anandtech) claim very similar memory bandwidth to Sony, as the eSRAM and DDR combined are very effective.
2) The Xbox 360 also had eSRAM so it's nothing new for developers to have to code for. There won't be any difficulty coding for it.
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It's not just CU either, the PS4 has double the amount of ROPs which basically means it has twice the fillrate. Every single multiplatform game will perform better on the PS4 unless Microsoft pay for devs to do otherwise, weather devs will use the increased framerate to add more/better visual effects on the PS4 version is still to be seen though.
The extra performance of the PS4 isn't something devs have to work hard to get, the PS4 and Xbox One have the same architecture, it's similar to upgrading a PC graphics card and immediately seeing an improvement in performance.
The extra performance of the PS4 isn't something devs have to work hard to get, the PS4 and Xbox One have the same architecture, it's similar to upgrading a PC graphics card and immediately seeing an improvement in performance.
and that's different from the 250GB 360 S how?
Not that I noticed until I went looking. It's in the AV unit.
No they dont, Anandtech talk about the possibility of reducing the bandwidth differences but not that what theyve implemented has - can you link me to a MS source regards that though? As it appears the numbers theyve used is a sum that doesnt actually make sense...
Anandtech said:
No it doesnt, it uses eDRAM primarily to provide 'free AA', and as far as Im aware from what Ive read its not implemented like the eSRAM in the XO at all, here its used between GPU and main memory and not for post-processing...
ps3ud0
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Soldato
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Even if they do end up with similar bandwidth which is still to be seen, Microsoft have had to use 1.6 billion transistors out of their budget for eSRAM, Sony didn't and used this for a better GPU.
Personally I think Sony have caught Microsoft unaware, I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Microsoft discovered Sony had managed to get 8GB of GDDR5 in their console, they took a risk and it has paid off.
It's only 32MB though, the GPU alone will have 1-2GB of textures which will have to be stored in (much slower) GDDR3... and they've sacrificed GPU capability considerably to accommodate the ESRAM. Even if (theoretically) Xbox One had equal memory bandwidth (unlikely) their GPU is far inferior.
My only concern for Sony's design is will GDDR5 be available in enough quantity at launch?
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It'll be interesting to see what difference the spec make in the real world. It may be the MS have made a decision to look to a wider market than just hardcore gamers, and if that produces bigger numbers it's likely to get the backing of the developers. There already seems to be some impressive deals with publishers being set up. If that pays off or not remains to be seen.
Pricing is going to be important as well, especially if your target market isn't just the hardcore gamers who will buy at any price.
Forums like this are always going to give a skewed view as tech enthusiasts and hardcore gamers, it'll be interesting to see what the mass market makes of the devices a year down the line. If texture quality etc is the same across devices would some added AA or effects be noticed by the average family purchase? Alternatively if you get "better" stuff for the same price then why not. It'll also be interesting to see how the media features and NFL/NBA type stuff pans out in the US. I'm not sure what global numbers are like but if that makes the xbox the significantly more popular console in the US how would that away global numbers and publisher support?
It looks like Sonys gamble on being able to come up with 8GB of DDR5 has paid off on face value, it could easily have been stuck with 2 or 4 but some times that's the way it lands. the only problem could be if the DDR5 is costing Sony a substantial amount meaning they have to go for a higher price or significant subsidy? Dunno, maybe someone around here will know better?
Either way, apart from some nit picking and +/- I think we'll get two stonkingly good consoles with their own strengths and that as far as I'm concerned is a good thing. I'll buy whichever suits my needs most. I've got no more loyalty to a brand of console than I have to a brand of Kettle (Russell Hobbs ftw!! ).
Whatever the relative performance I'm pretty sure my Core I7 with dual 7970s at 1440p is going to make for prettier games for a few years yet to come
Pricing is going to be important as well, especially if your target market isn't just the hardcore gamers who will buy at any price.
Forums like this are always going to give a skewed view as tech enthusiasts and hardcore gamers, it'll be interesting to see what the mass market makes of the devices a year down the line. If texture quality etc is the same across devices would some added AA or effects be noticed by the average family purchase? Alternatively if you get "better" stuff for the same price then why not. It'll also be interesting to see how the media features and NFL/NBA type stuff pans out in the US. I'm not sure what global numbers are like but if that makes the xbox the significantly more popular console in the US how would that away global numbers and publisher support?
It looks like Sonys gamble on being able to come up with 8GB of DDR5 has paid off on face value, it could easily have been stuck with 2 or 4 but some times that's the way it lands. the only problem could be if the DDR5 is costing Sony a substantial amount meaning they have to go for a higher price or significant subsidy? Dunno, maybe someone around here will know better?
Either way, apart from some nit picking and +/- I think we'll get two stonkingly good consoles with their own strengths and that as far as I'm concerned is a good thing. I'll buy whichever suits my needs most. I've got no more loyalty to a brand of console than I have to a brand of Kettle (Russell Hobbs ftw!! ).
Whatever the relative performance I'm pretty sure my Core I7 with dual 7970s at 1440p is going to make for prettier games for a few years yet to come
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Assuming that is all correct, and its seems to be the case, then this will swing it 100% for me... I'm not interested in the media aspects, or Kinect with the One, so having a more powerful machine, with exclusives taking advantage of that power, delivering better visuals and frames rates, makes it an easy choice. Plus, multi-platform titles may run at higher frame rates, even if they do not look much different.
Having owned a 360 for 3years a change of exclusive titles also holds some appeal.
Owning both, good though that would be, is not really possible.
Thats not really how it works, the size isnt the big issue its more making sure its always full, that will need some programming and forethought. Theyve cut corners mainly to get Kinect in there as a standard peripheral and to avoid the PS3 launch price...
ps3ud0
I'm sure both systems will be great at HD and all the multi platform games will more than likely be exactly the same for both consoles. The PS4 only titles might be slightly better if you could play them on the Xbox but we will never know anyway.
I'm sure they will both be as equally awful on a 4096 x 2160 TV. Within a year a PC under a XHD TV will make every title look like Wii a game IMO.
I'm sure they will both be as equally awful on a 4096 x 2160 TV. Within a year a PC under a XHD TV will make every title look like Wii a game IMO.
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Hmm, dunno - it sounds more likely they weren't confident of being able to get 8GB of DDR5 so went for a safer plan. If PS4 had have ended up limited to 2 or 4GB of DDR all other things may have balanced out.Thats not really how it works, the size isnt the big issue its more making sure its always full, that will need some programming and forethought. Theyve cut corners mainly to get Kinect in there as a standard peripheral and to avoid the PS3 launch price...
ps3ud0
Sounds like Sony got lucky which in business is sometimes all you need
Using MS Memory Math, I have 2 cars one does 90Mph the other 100Mph, therefor i have a car that goes 190MPH!
By the sounds of it the 32Mb is about enough for 1 frame off 1080P screen with 4xMSA enabled.
Its all a bit to early to tell how much difference it all makes in multiplat form games, i do expect that Sony first party games will do look a better.
By the sounds of it the 32Mb is about enough for 1 frame off 1080P screen with 4xMSA enabled.
Its all a bit to early to tell how much difference it all makes in multiplat form games, i do expect that Sony first party games will do look a better.
If the comparison between both on Anandtech is legit.
Colour me surprised, to me it seems like Sony are throwing the kitchen sink this time round. Almost everything is in their favour. Where as Microsoft are skimping on specs.
We're not going to get a similar situation of last time round either, both are easy to develop for.
Colour me surprised, to me it seems like Sony are throwing the kitchen sink this time round. Almost everything is in their favour. Where as Microsoft are skimping on specs.
We're not going to get a similar situation of last time round either, both are easy to develop for.
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Anyone see Jason Bradburys tweet on comparison to a build your own PC?
@JasonBradbury: If anyone can spec a PC to XboxOne standards for under £500 I'd be interested to c it. Wud make a cool #GadgetShow item #ImSkeptical
@JasonBradbury: If anyone can spec a PC to XboxOne standards for under £500 I'd be interested to c it. Wud make a cool #GadgetShow item #ImSkeptical