Your country needs YOU!

[Jono8]

Kinda ironic those guys moan the UK govt is in bed with Russians but they wouldn't join the fight against Russians

There wouldn't really be a fight with the Russians. If it escalated so much that NATO got involved in a full scale war, it likely isn't going to be long until the nukes start flying. The world wouldn't be worth living in after that anyway.

That is what we have nuclear weapons/trident for. So we don't have to do that stupid direct fighting between superpowers any more.

 

[plasmahal]

At best, I'd be in the new version of Dad's Army.....

 

[Efour]

Patriotism/nationalism is a stupid concept anyway.

I don't understand being automatically/unequivocally proud of the country you were just by chance born in.

I didn't say it was automatically given.
And I agree with you.
But at times if crisis you look for all that's good and if there's nothing worth it because society has been eroded and flattened by years of **** government then that's terrible.

 

[Jono8]

But at times if crisis you look for all that's good and if there's nothing worth it because society has been eroded and flattened by years of **** government then that's terrible.

True. But that is the world/economy/society we have built.

Everyone is fed up and depressed. Its just the inevitable end game of capitalism.

 

[413x]

Patriotism/nationalism is a stupid concept anyway.

I don't understand being automatically/unequivocally proud of the country you were just by chance born in.

This is my view exactly. I'm lucky to be born in a stable western country.
But I'm not proud of it. I didn't get here by skill, endurance, perseverance etc. It was just plain good luck.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

True. But that is the world/economy/society we have built.

Everyone is fed up and depressed. Its just the inevitable end game of capitalism.

Counterpoint: pretty rad, my dude

e: are we still talking about Bronte? Oooh, those Bookmarks :/

 

[Rroff]

Russia will not go to war with NATO. She'll do everything in her power to avoid that conflict. She'll scream, beg, plead, grovel, make the usual empty promises, and try every other trick in the book. But she will not go to war with NATO.

So my views on this are 'We have nothing to worry about. It's purely hypothetical.'

Ignoring Ukraine Russia right now has somewhere around 300K ground forces, a few 100 modern(ish) tanks, probably 2-2.5K serviceable armoured fighting vehicles, something of an air force but crippled by years of poor maintenance and lacking investment, most of their war reserves and stockpiles have been used up in Ukraine, etc. etc. they are barely sufficient to defend Russia let alone go on the offensive. But I think we do need to be cautious as to where they go in the future and/or the potential in this destabilised situation for something crazy happening like Putin being deposed by someone who doesn't think Putin is going far enough and does do something utterly unthinkable like attacking NATO with what they have.

Russia is sloooowly turning around civilian and industrial mobilisation towards the war effort but at current rates it will take years for them to even start putting out serious numbers of tanks, weapons and ammo, etc. for a lot of stuff the production lines or knowledge no longer exist or are tied up with repairing stuff from Ukraine, etc. but they will get there eventually.

In comparison even a poorly prepared European country even in this day and age would need a million man army and months of bitter fighting to take a large defended city let alone the whole country - the key there really is that being robustly prepared makes the whole thing so prohibitive no one is likely to even think about actually doing it unless they are completely crazy. While being poorly prepared makes the proposition look more enticing to the likes of Putin.

 

[Narj]

Patriotism/nationalism is a stupid concept anyway.

I don't understand being automatically/unequivocally proud of the country you were just by chance born in.

Depends, IMO. I think it's fine if there's something to be proud of - those from the past working to improve the country or even the world for the better is something that's fine to feel patriotic about.

Otherwise if you take no pride in and have no affinity for your country, what's the incentive in trying to make it better for future generations?

Oh hang on, that's where we seem to be at now...

 

[Efour]

This is my view exactly. I'm lucky to be born in a stable western country.
But I'm not proud of it. I didn't get here by skill, endurance, perseverance etc. It was just plain good luck.

I used to think like this too but take a step back and consider all the years or work that has gone into building Europe to be like it is. Sacrifices, Christian religion, commerce.

It's really cheesy but we should be proud of our countries. It's not like your parents had you here/there they where there to be part of the big scheme of it too, and so on and so on.

Western Europe is ******* brilliant. There's not many better places but it is going to **** because of "insert reasons" whatever it's a mini rant.
We should be happy and contribute to maintaining a better Europe. Whatever that entails.

 

[dunno]

we'd just be cannon fodder to slow down any advance - it would depend on what we are asked to do i.e be on the front line, or support with taking supplies to and from places.

 

[Rroff]

I used to think like this too but take a step back and consider all the years or work that has gone into building Europe to be like it is. Sacrifices, Christian religion, commerce.

It's really cheesy but we should be proud of our countries. It's not like your parents had you here/there they where there to be part of the big scheme of it too, and so on and so on.

Western Europe is ******* brilliant. There's not many better places but it is going to **** because of "insert reasons" whatever it's a mini rant.
We should be happy and contribute to maintaining a better Europe. Whatever that entails.

Yeah we definitely should be proud of where things advance civilisation, though I'm not happy with the state of the country overall.

 

[Jono8]

I used to think like this too but take a step back and consider all the years or work that has gone into building Europe to be like it is. Sacrifices, Christian religion, commerce.

It's really cheesy but we should be proud of our countries. It's not like your parents had you here/there they where there to be part of the big scheme of it too, and so on and so on.

Western Europe is ******* brilliant. There's not many better places but it is going to **** because of "insert reasons" whatever it's a mini rant.
We should be happy and contribute to maintaining a better Europe. Whatever that entails.

I agree that western Europe is still probably one of the best places to live in the world.

However, it is being rapidly eroded by the rich and wealth inequality. Greed destroys everything and it is destroying us as well.

Since the housing crisis in 2008, wage growth (in relation to the cost of living) has been abysmal. Then during the pandemic and beyond we've witnessed the biggest corporate theft of everyone's money and standard of living for quite a while.

You can feel everything struggling under the weight of this now in the west, and it is primarily caused by greed and ever increasing wealth inequality.

 

[delta0]

At best, I'd be in the new version of Dad's Army.....

Probably the same. Looking at the age of conscription by Russia at the moment it’s 30. During WW2 it reached 41 in the UK. Almost past that point and by the time things kick off probably well past that.

 

[squerble]

Depends, IMO. I think it's fine if there's something to be proud of - those from the past working to improve the country or even the world for the better is something that's fine to feel patriotic about.

Otherwise if you take no pride in and have no affinity for your country, what's the incentive in trying to make it better for future generations?

Oh hang on, that's where we seem to be at now...

The boomer generation have certainly "got theirs" and are the largest cohort in the country right now so will be able to protect it at all costs. There's a very interesting lecture at the RI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuXzvjBYW8A) about this phenomenon. It's an hour long but worth the watch.

A generation born in the years following the war are much, much more patriotic, and much more likely to look down their noses at younger people who don't have the same patriotism. A generation who will happily miss the irony of saying we should defend the country while hoarding everything we should be fighting for. A generation happy to push the younger generations to conscription knowing they can stay in their large, cosy homes likely worth 10x what they easily bought it for a few decades ago.

 

[Efour]

I agree that western Europe is still probably one of the best places to live in the world.

However, it is being rapidly eroded by the rich and wealth inequality. Greed destroys everything and it is destroying us as well.

Since the housing crisis in 2008, wage growth (in relation to the cost of living) has been abysmal. Then during the pandemic and beyond we've witnessed the biggest corporate theft of everyone's money and standard of living for quite a while.

You can feel everything struggling under the weight of this now in the west, and it is primarily caused by greed and ever increasing wealth inequality.

I think it's probably because we haven't had a major war for so long.
I'm not advocating WW3, but something has to break the cycle you rightfully point out exists.

future doesn't look rosey..... But only we can change it :/

 

[Blackvault]

Three pages in and no one has posted Black Sabbath?

I don't think I'd be actively volunteering as I do think Great Britain and Northern Ireland are a bit of a lost cause.

 

[Jono8]

I think it's probably because we haven't had a major war for so long.
I'm not advocating WW3, but something has to break the cycle you rightfully point out exists.

future doesn't look rosey..... But only we can change it :/

Eat the rich

 

[Efour]

Jean Jacque Russo and Areosmiths greatest collaboration.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Everyone is fed up and depressed.

No, you're applying your own perspective to everyone.

It's like I said earlier in the thread. If you spend most of your time online consuming doomer content, it's no surprise that you think the rest of society feels the same way.

You're always posting on here about capitalism and how evil it is. The majority of people don't think that way, or at least, don't use it as an excuse for their own problems.

 

[Jono8]

No, you're applying your own perspective to everyone.

It's like I said earlier in the thread. If you spend most of your time online consuming doomer content, it's no surprise that you think the rest of society feels the same way.

You're always posting on here about capitalism and how evil it is. The majority of people don't think that way, or at least, don't use it as an excuse for their own problems.

Well the use of "everyone" is hyperbole of course. However, if you think that mental health issues/demoralisation and increasing hatred towards our capitalist system/wealth inequality/the rich isn't rife and ever increasing, then you are simply sticking your head in the sand.

It is also nothing to do with consuming "doomer" content. It is first hand experience of generally everything in life. It is all going to **** from my experience.