Your experience with OLED burn-in

[Nexus18]

Wow, so many clueless people in this thread and most probably don't even own an OLED lol.....

The "recommended" luminance for professional calibration is 120 nits for "SDR" content..... IIRC this equates to about 25-40% OLED light depending on your panel....... Yes, if your room and TV is setup poorly with regards to glare and bright lighting then you "may" have to use a higher OLED light setting, however, anyone who is serious about good picture quality and willing to spend ££££'s etc. to get the best IQ should have their room setup properly in order to get the best from their display and no I don't mean, in pitch black conditions (although this is most ideal especially with HDR content, otherwise you are just losing the effect of a self-emitting display), just simply have your TV placed appropriately with controlled lighting i.e. not with a massive window right behind shining in on the TV or if you do have to setup the TV in this way then invest in blackout blinds/curtains.

Rtings recommended settings aren't that good either, these are better:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...osQ79CUArQv9doO4UvVCCXtgFw/edit#gid=854865656

Also, the default setting for ISF bright or technicolor is 80% oled light setting and even for ISF dark preset, it is 60%, far exceeding the recommended nits for SDR content.


For HDR content, OLED light setting should be left at 100% along with dynamic contrast set to low as this is recommended for the best tone mapping algorithm (this may be different for other brands of OLED TVs or/and when using different methods of playing back HDR content though i.e. through MPC + madvr or a blu ray player), if anything, burn in is less likely to happen with HDR content on OLED screens because of the constant changing frames with regards to the brightness of scenes always fluctuating, each pixel will adjust its brightness accordingly, the only time HDR will ever prove to be a problem for image retention/burn in is with HDR games and its in game HUDs i.e. the prominent ones which don't hide automatically or/and have 100% opacity.

 

[jpaul]

if anything, burn in is less likely to happen with HDR content on OLED screens because of the constant changing frames with regards to the brightness of scenes always fluctuating,

egh ... so you think the average brightness of an hdr movie will be less than an sd one ?
burn in potential is logarithmic with brightness too (read the LG pdf i posted in qledvsoled thread), so, that pixel displaying 240nits say, will live a 1/4 of the time of a 120nit pixel.

The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long

.. he was nearly right

Wow, so many clueless people in this thread.


and most probably don't even own an OLED lol.....

due diligence, for when we are next in the purchase cycle.

I'm not happy with the explanation of why I had screen burn, I'm happy it's getting resolved.

apriori - they will replace with a B6/like ?

 

[Nexus18]

egh ... so you think the average brightness of an hdr movie will be less than an sd one ?
burn in potential is logarithmic with brightness too (read the LG pdf i posted in qledvsoled thread), so, that pixel displaying 240nits say, will live a 1/4 of the time of a 120nit pixel.
.. he was nearly right


due diligence, for when we are next in the purchase cycle.



apriori - they will replace with a B6/like ?

Depends entirely on the movie i.e. meg is incredibly bright film where as blade runner is very dim (will post screenshots of the nits through the entire scenes later), also, the method being used to play back the film, there's so many different factors that come into play with regards to the OLED light setting/luminance.

Also, this:

 

[jpaul]

yes - the oled will live a bit longer providing you stick to blade runner, mad max on a loop will kill you - LG just don't tell you all the details

edit: *BEST* - the warner bros version

 

[the wopster]

yes - the oled will live a bit longer providing you stick to blade runner, mad max on a loop will kill you - LG just don't tell you all the details

edit: *BEST* - the warner bros version

You do realise that the max luminance on all of those listed movies will most likely be for a millisecond on a tiny part of the screen and will not be a sustained brightness through the movie, even the brightest TV is only at maximum sustained 4x brighter than an OLED but every LCD is miles behind an OLED in black levels, it’s all about the dynamic range and those perfect blacks just add so much to the picture, which is why I’m sorry to say until micro/nano LED, LCDs just can’t compete with overall picture quality and depth.

 

[jpaul]

yes .. we really need a probability distribution function of the average frame luminance across the mad-max movie, not just the highest average frame luminance/Maxfall=3242
albeit even for bladerunner if the tv has scaled up the 181 nit peak pixel maxcll to fill the range offered by the tv it could be just as aggressive.
(if your're not viewing in the dark then the oled perfect blacks are not as exploitable ... but we have kicked that to death in the oledvsqled thread)

 

[V F]

.... Cont... And to me, its obvious Oled is inherently flawed. Great picture quality but limited lifespan. Totally unacceptable for such an expensive item.
I won't spend any more money on LG products, how many more are thinking the same. LG should wisen up and support their customer base before it is too late.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong but this feels no different to Plasma. If you know how to manage your set, it's a flawless experience.

Out of curiosity, did you leave the oled light setting at its default? i know on my e7 it was to high out of the box with a setting of 85. I believe i have it at around 45 which is much better for me.

It's a blinding setting but it'll explain why 45 is easier for you. When I measured OLED light 45 and Contrast 80 on isf expert1, it came in about 39ftl/140cd^m2.

With the right settings and not watching bright white static tickers, you can watch the sets endlessly and never suffer.

yes .. we really need a probability distribution function of the average frame luminance across the mad-max movie, not just the highest average frame luminance/Maxfall=3242
albeit even for bladerunner if the tv has scaled up the 181 nit peak pixel maxcll to fill the range offered by the tv it could be just as aggressive.
(if your're not viewing in the dark then the oled perfect blacks are not as exploitable ... but we have kicked that to death in the oledvsqled thread)

Even in dim lighting with a lamp or two, true black pays off. How are most peoples living rooms lit with their tv?

 

[pioneer2000]

Lol at the feverish charting of luminance for each and every film you watch! Talk about missing the point. The fact that one has to consider such nonsense in order to avoid screen retention and burn in is absolutely the problem here. LG themselves suggest 100 OLED light for HDR... that results in image retention within less than a minute of anything being on the screen. Case in point, load up Netflix (being HDR 10 / Dolby Vision depending on the device) on a B7 and the red Netflix logo will leave image retention in the time it takes to open (about 5 seconds).

 

[jpaul]

Lol at the feverish charting of luminance for each and every film you watch!

it's gallowsoled humour ... of course (like BMW and other telemetry sytems) maybe you're oled is tracking your viewing habits.

rtings burnin tests are not necessarily tracking the right thing ... with any colour shift/ageing, in theory they need to drive the panel harder to compensate, so increasing power consumption maybe its signature.

 

[Nexus18]

Just a small example for HDR content, bear in mind these are the 2 extremes.......

Meg:



Blade Runner:

Lol at the feverish charting of luminance for each and every film you watch! Talk about missing the point. The fact that one has to consider such nonsense in order to avoid screen retention and burn in is absolutely the problem here. LG themselves suggest 100 OLED light for HDR... that results in image retention within less than a minute of anything being on the screen. Case in point, load up Netflix (being HDR 10 / Dolby Vision depending on the device) on a B7 and the red Netflix logo will leave image retention in the time it takes to open (about 5 seconds).

Your TV must be faulty or something as that is not the case with my E7.

Also, it's not a case of having to adjust brightness depending on the content, it's just a case of setting the recommended brightness for SDR and HDR content or/and to suit your rooms conditions and that's it, so for SDR, 25-40% brightness and for HDR, 100%

 

[the wopster]

Just a small example for HDR content, bear in mind these are the 2 extremes.......

Meg:



Blade Runner:





Your TV must be faulty or something as that is not the case with my E7.

Also, it's not a case of having to adjust brightness depending on the content, it's just a case of setting the recommended brightness for SDR and HDR content or/and to suit your rooms conditions and that's it, so for SDR, 25-40% brightness and for HDR, 100%

Panel variations mate some are more prone than others, I have had 2 AF9s the first one would show a distinct after image after just a few seconds of anything yellow or red on the screen but my second takes almost 20-30 minutes show the same after image, this is always going to be the problem of OLED and why both LG and Samsung are working on micro and nano LCD technologies which will kill OLED, all of the pros and non of the cons.

 

[TheVoice]

Lol at the feverish charting of luminance for each and every film you watch! Talk about missing the point. The fact that one has to consider such nonsense in order to avoid screen retention and burn in is absolutely the problem here. LG themselves suggest 100 OLED light for HDR... that results in image retention within less than a minute of anything being on the screen. Case in point, load up Netflix (being HDR 10 / Dolby Vision depending on the device) on a B7 and the red Netflix logo will leave image retention in the time it takes to open (about 5 seconds).

The Netflix interface doesn't display in HDR, it only switches when you start playing something.

 

[benjii]

Your TV must be faulty or something as that is not the case with my E7.

It's not visible in normal content, you have to quickly load up a 5% grey scale slide to see it. It will disappear within a minute or so, though.

 

[the wopster]

It's not visible in normal content, you have to quickly load up a 5% grey scale slide to see it. It will disappear within a minute or so, though.

As I said Not every OLED does it mate, it’s due to panel variations some are more prone than others to a little IR, i have gone through a lot of OLEDs this year to get the one I want and only 3 have shown IR after less than 5 mins of a static yellow/red image

 

[benjii]

As I said Not every OLED does it mate, it’s due to panel variations some are more prone than others to a little IR, i have gone through a lot of OLEDs this year to get the one I want and only 3 have shown IR after less than 5 mins of a static yellow/red image

Were all tested at 100 brightness, Dolby Vision/HDR and viewed in a dark room at 5% grey scale? As, I too have been through a bunch and have seen it in every screen.

It would be nice to have some more data on this, anyone else care to chime in?

 

[jpaul]

I have had 2 AF9s the first one would show a distinct after image after just a few seconds of anything yellow or red on the screen

you sent the former back ... that sounds more like a manufacturing defect , and would not be tolerable ?

Is there an explanation of why bladerunner was mastered with lower nits ?
HDR sets might just scale of the brightness within the range available on the TV, so objectively BR and meg might appear just as bright,
the meg high brightnesses are obviously not reproducible on home tv's, and will be subject to the diverse lg or panasonic eotf curves, so maybe the product would be less consistant across tv's, vs blade runner.
Blade runner is barely exceeding the sustainable hdr on an oled, so maybe they have an eye on the target tv's too.
if you have sustained high brightness across multiple scenes on an oled, I assume it will not start backing off the brightness after the scenes have lasted more than, 10s, say.
(or whenever the abl cuts in) that would be un-natural , like enabling dynamic backlight options on a led.

 

[the wopster]

Were all at 100 brightness and viewed in a dark room at 5% grey scale? As, I too have been through a bunch and have seen it in every screen.

It would be nice to have some more data on this, anyone else care to chime in?

Why would you have your screen at 100 brightness if it’s not showing HDR content that a very quick way to damage your panel? You do know that when when the TV is HDR mode displaying HDR content the OLED light is not at 100 at all time, it uses the meta data to adjust on the fly so it’s not constantly driving the pixels at max, but when your in SDR at 100 OLED light it’s stays a 100 at all times as it has no meta data ,which is probably why your seeing IR after such a short time.

 

[pioneer2000]

Why would you have your screen at 100 brightness if it’s not showing HDR content that a very quick way to damage your panel? You do know that when when the TV is HDR mode displaying HDR content the OLED light is not at 100 at all time, it uses the meta data to adjust on the fly so it’s not constantly driving the pixels at max, but when your in SDR at 100 OLED light it’s stays a 100 at all times as it has no meta data ,which is probably why your seeing IR after such a short time.

Are you suggesting that LG a) LG are wrong in defaulting OLED light to much higher than that. b) are aware that anything over say 50% is damaging to the panel and shows image retention almost immediately?

To answer the above, the brighter the image the more visually pleasing it is in anything but a pitch black room. Why is there a need to defend an obvious weakness with a technology?

 

[benjii]

Why would you have your screen at 100 brightness if it’s not showing HDR content that a very quick way to damage your panel? You do know that when when the TV is HDR mode displaying HDR content the OLED light is not at 100 at all time, it uses the meta data to adjust on the fly so it’s not constantly driving the pixels at max, but when your in SDR at 100 OLED light it’s stays a 100 at all times as it has no meta data ,which is probably why your seeing IR after such a short time.

I edited my post, before you posted, to specify that 100 brightness is for HDR/Dolby Vision, not in SDR. As the Netflix and Youtube logo use one of the the brightest shades of red, that area is most likely using near max brightness. My brightness in SDR is 38.

 

[pioneer2000]

The Netflix interface doesn't display in HDR, it only switches when you start playing something.

That’s even worse then, as now we’re talking about 60 OLED light in SDR.