Poll: Poll: should the UK ban the islamic veil?

[Merlin5]

Something I just put together to lighten the mood.

 

[OriginalJonty]

Well you were wrong, we are not that accommodating so **** off back to east where you belong.

I'm glad my grandparents came here in the 50's and despite the attitudes they faced, like this one, they persevered, created a life for themselves and raised a family while thankful to the opportunities that were presented to them.

I have a lot more respect for people like that than I do for people like you who go out to make people's lives difficult for no real reason other than your xenophobia.

 

[Delvis]

I'm glad my grandparents came here in the 50's and despite the attitudes they faced, like this one, they persevered, created a life for themselves and raised a family while thankful to the opportunities that were presented to them.

I have a lot more respect for people like that than I do for people like you who go out to make people's lives difficult for no real reason other than your xenophobia.

However, your opinion may be different to his due to different upbringings and happenings in life.

 

[OriginalJonty]

However, your opinion may be different to his due to different upbringings and happenings in life.

It seems I was taught to respect all people unless they proved to be disrespectful. I was taught that all people are equal.

Guess he didn't get those lessons.

 

[tom_nieto]

No. If one were to ban a veil based on a race or religion that by my book is extremism and cannot be tolerated in modern British society.

A ban on covering the face might be a less pointed way of achieving the same goal, but it would still be very obvious what the overall goal was. Besides, people like to wear full face crash helmets when riding a motorbike.

 

[RDM]

It seems I was taught to respect all people unless they proved to be disrespectful. I was taught that all people are equal.

Guess he didn't get those lessons.

I am not exactly sure hiding your face is considered respectful. It is certainly considered rude in this country. If you were taught all people are equal then why do you support such a tool that has been used to suppress one category of people for centuries and is still seen as a symbol of repression in many parts of the world? I know you are going to fall back on the "Well the choose to wear it" mantra, but to do so is to completely ignore the societal pressure, the history of the item and just how divisive it is seen in western europe.

 

[B&W]

Most people put up with it on a daily basis, when they go to work.

Yeah thats obvious mate, when you work in whatever environment and you have to wear what that comany dictates as you are paid for it.

Unless your gonna start paying veil wearers too now..

 

[Biohazard]

Why do so many think the veil is an enabler of oppression? Our record on gender rights (both ways) is hardly great after all. Remember a man could not be charged with raping his wife in the UK until 1991, and we still treat women differently from men in divorce settlements, criminal punishments and so on. We also still have problems with domestic violence and so on.

If you want to tackle oppression of women (or indeed men), tackle it, don't use it as an excuse to push irrelevant laws on things you don't like.

Excellent points.

I must be brutally honest.

I find ANYTHING Islamist offensive. I find the mosques offensive. Why are they allowed?

I find the silly dressing gowns offensive.

I find the silly headgear offensive.

I find the using of hands to wipe the bottom offensive.

I find the greasy beards offensive.

And finally I find a black, cloaked, veiled woman highly offensive.

Its odd, as Im not a racist, I just cant explain why I when I see these women dressed like this I totally rage. I really do.... I would love to go up to them and rip their silly clothes off, and tell them that they live in the UK not in some desert country.

Obviously as I am respectful of others feelings I dont do this, but the point still stands... seeing these wierd veils makes me rage, and I cannot be alone in this, or France wouldnt feel the rage at the veil either!!

Wow.

I cannot describe how much two dimentional people like you irritate me.

Sadly untrue - they have an army of native apologists on their side.

The issue for me isn't banning face viels, if people choose to dress this way then they should be free to do so, much like idiots who wear their jeans round their knees with their bums on show.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-low-slung-trousers-breach-human-rights.html

(Daily mail first google link, was reported elsewhere)

 

[B&W]

Us majority of idiots only said veil mate you can wear flairs if 'you' like.. if a police officer said hey you take that balaclava off, i would. My world is crushed?

It's called freedom, maybe you like yours being encroached upon most people do not.

 

[markweatherill]

A ban on covering the face might be a less pointed way of achieving the same goal, but it would still be very obvious what the overall goal was. Besides, people like to wear full face crash helmets when riding a motorbike.

If I ever need an operation, I'd much prefer the surgeons were permitted by law to cover their faces.

 

[ShaolinDreams]

No. If one were to ban a veil based on a race or religion that by my book is extremism and cannot be tolerated in modern British society.

A ban on covering the face might be a less pointed way of achieving the same goal, but it would still be very obvious what the overall goal was. Besides, people like to wear full face crash helmets when riding a motorbike.

Crash helmet while riding a bike is a completely invalid comparison mate.

It's called freedom, maybe you like yours being encroached upon most people do not.

run around outside naked and see how long your free for

 

[Uriel]

No. May as well ban balaclavas and crash helmets.

 

[Allnamestaken]

Holy Crap Tango Your the epitome of DUMB.

 

[OriginalJonty]

I am not exactly sure hiding your face is considered respectful. It is certainly considered rude in this country. If you were taught all people are equal then why do you support such a tool that has been used to suppress one category of people for centuries and is still seen as a symbol of repression in many parts of the world? I know you are going to fall back on the "Well the choose to wear it" mantra, but to do so is to completely ignore the societal pressure, the history of the item and just how divisive it is seen in western europe.

This is where it becomes complicated. I believe in freedom of expression, speech, worship etc. As a citizen of this country I can and do criticise things a lot, including what the veil has historically signified.

However, I also said I believe in freedom of worship, and though I do not always agree with it, Islam is a religion to whom that freedom extends to. Now, I could rant and rave at Muslims who believe that the veil should be used as a sign of oppression but me shouting at them and then banning the thing isn't going to have a positive effect.

I've mentioned in this thread before that I believe that the change needs to come from within, the freedom to change if you will. Already I see and interact with 2nd and 3rd generation Muslim girls who do shun the veil and who do debate with their Imams. This is where the change is and should come from, not from an outside force who does not understand the workings of Islam.

Of course not all of this is as black and white as I make it out to be and by no means are my opinions infallible. My belief system does become a bit complicated.

 

[86JR]

Hang on.. since when is the freedom to wear what you like a muslim law?

Have you ever beeen arrested for breaking a muslim law?

We're not being coerced in the slightest, we're being open, tolerant and welcoming. I'm not sure how you see this as coercion?

Banning nativity plays in all schools isnt "open" or "tolerant" or "welcoming" its "agreeing" its "changing" and its "accepting" to play by muslim rules.

Even schools which have no muslims in them or muslim parents, teachers,cleaners,staff cannot legally allow nativity plays because its "offensive" to muslims yet it is perfectly acceptable for a row of muslims, protected by the police AGAINST english people to stand in a line and throw insults at our troops when they come home from iraq and afghanistan.

We arent simple letting them stay we are conforming to their principles in spite of our own.

 

[OriginalJonty]

Banning nativity plays in all schools isnt "open" or "tolerant" or "welcoming" its "agreeing" its "changing" and its "accepting" to play by muslim rules.

Even schools which have no muslims in them or muslim parents, teachers,cleaners,staff cannot legally allow nativity plays because its "offensive" to muslims yet it is perfectly acceptable for a row of muslims, protected by the police AGAINST english people to stand in a line and throw insults at our troops when they come home from iraq and afghanistan.

We arent simple letting them stay we are conforming to their principles in spite of our own.

Can we have a source for these accusations? About nativities being banned as they offend Muslims.

 

[Yas786]

Well you were wrong, we are not that accommodating so **** off back to east where you belong.

I wish you and others like you would **** off back to the cave you crawled out from...

 

[Tefal]

Except of course the the only "banning" of nativity plays i know of were declared by a white council, and the local Muslim community came out and said it was a ridiculous idea and they didn't want it banned.

 

[Yas786]

Can we have a source for these accusations? About nativities being banned as they offend Muslims.

There were a few stories in guess where??....yup the Daily Fail...

 

[86JR]

This is where it becomes complicated. I believe in freedom of expression, speech, worship etc. As a citizen of this country I can and do criticise things a lot, including what the veil has historically signified.

However, I also said I believe in freedom of worship, and though I do not always agree with it, Islam is a religion to whom that freedom extends to. Now, I could rant and rave at Muslims who believe that the veil should be used as a sign of oppression but me shouting at them and then banning the thing isn't going to have a positive effect.

I've mentioned in this thread before that I believe that the change needs to come from within, the freedom to change if you will. Already I see and interact with 2nd and 3rd generation Muslim girls who do shun the veil and who do debate with their Imams. This is where the change is and should come from, not from an outside force who does not understand the workings of Islam.

Of course not all of this is as black and white as I make it out to be and by no means are my opinions infallible. My belief system does become a bit complicated.

Theres parts of England already where muslims live in closed communitys. If a muslim girl dates an english guy the english guy gets killed and the muslim girl gets shunned. There was a case a few years back where a muslim girl got set on fire by her family for fornicating with an english boy who got "honor killed" by the brothers in her family. These are closed communities, no go areas for whites, yet they are perfectly happy being operated on by whites in hospitals.

We treat them like they are one step higher up the food chain than us and they spit in our faces in return.