Bahrain Grand Prix 2012, Sakhir - Race 4/20

They should make the tyres last a whole race if you want to be conservative, but around a third/half of the race if you wanna be racey. That way you aren't forced to make constant pit stops if you don't want to, but it also leaves the option open for strategic pushing and pitting.

Seeing cars being able to go flat out for 5 laps, then burn out their tyres and sitting in dirty air just gets a little frustrating for the viewer.
 
I've always thought they should have a super hard tyre that lasts the whole race but is slow, a medium tyre that lasts half the race but is a bit faster and a soft tyre that is really quick but only lasts a third of the race and you should be able to use whatever tyre you want and not have a limited supply. I'd like all 3 sets of tyres be capable of the same overall race pace, allowing for pit stops and finally on my wish list I'd like them to be able to drive as fast as the car can go without the constant fear of destroying their tyres.
 
The trouble is you will never get tyres that offer enough of an on track difference to offset a pitstop (30 seconds).

You would need tyres that were consistently over 1 second apart.

And again, as with everything in F1, all the teams would end up on the same strategy anyway.

Its a very complicated one to work out. Whenever you have a race that involves tyre stops you will always have tyre management as part of the race.

Maybe they could bring back refueling? That way the pit strategy is defined by fuel and not by the life of the tyres and providing the fuel is less than the life of the tyre, the drivers could push harder for longer? They would have to get rid of that stupid start on your qualifying fuel rubbish though. It was much better when some guy stuck it on pole and then brimmed it for the race and held everyone up.
 
To be honest I think MS just spat his dummy out a little, the tyres are fine as many drivers have shown, and he came from near enough last to 10th so not sure how he feels he could not race.

It was much better when some guy stuck it on pole and then brimmed it for the race and held everyone up.

That never happened though.
 
Like I said, though: they may currently be able to last 10-15 laps, but that is presumably with the drivers already managing their tyres (people have mentioned in this thread already that drivers don't even bother attempting an overtake for fear of ruining their tyres early on). I honestly don't think a driver in this Pirelli era of F1 would be able to drive at 100% of their car's capabilities for very long, while at the same time giving them the confidence to perform audacious overtakes at the beginning of races. If the drivers could go balls out for 15 laps, lap after lap, while being able to maintain consistent lap times, we would have true 'racing' on our hands, especially as the aero rules have tightened up (something I know you are a fan of).
look at bahrain qualifying on the 2nd run people were already 1 second faster so the tyres presumably would have already overheated during the 3rd sector.

they should try and make a tyre like the bridgestones that you could push then have a period of graining before the tyres came back to life if they want artificial overtaking
 
It was much better when some guy stuck it on pole and then brimmed it for the race and held everyone up.

That damned safety car sometimes puts in a good quali lap and gets in pole. Then you get this stupid train of cars and nobody can pass..... :(
 
To be honest I think MS just spat his dummy out a little, the tyres are fine as many drivers have shown, and he came from near enough last to 10th so not sure how he feels he could not race.



That never happened though.

Button has said he is unsure about the tires and he's won a race this year.

I don't think the issue is that that degrade, it's that they are so weather and track dependent nobody has a clue how they degrade.
 
LOL he just had poor race pace, but anyway you actually found that fun and better racing?

No not all the time.

But given the choice between a Trulli Train and a Vettel vanishing and building a 10 second lead in 5 laps and then never being challenged, I would probably go fora Trulli Train.

Its all swings and roundabouts though. The one thing I will say is that the FIA's hell bent desire to tie Qualifying to the Race (through fuel loads before, and now through tyres) is utterly stupid. The first thing they should do is give the teams a couple of extra sets of tyres to remove the issue of people not running in Q3, and then remove the need to start on your qualifying tyres to allow the top 10 to start on a mix of strategies.

Its interesting this conversation has come up in here. I posted the GP2 tyre regulations in the Off Topic thread hoping to start a discussion, should have posted them in here really :)

The GP2 Series uses slick Pirelli tyres in four specifications (super soft, soft, medium and hard) which are predetermined by Pirelli in advance of the race weekend.
In a change of regulations in 2012, each driver has four sets of dry-weather tyres per weekend – three of “prime” specification and one of “option” specification (in Monaco, there will be two of “prime” specification and two of “option” provided per driver). Each driver will also be provided with three sets of wet-weather tyres.
As always, teams and drivers will have to keep one fresh set of prime for the Sunday Sprint Race. However, they will be able to choose between the remaining two sets of “prime” and the one set of “option” to use either during Free Practice, Qualifying and/or the Saturday Race. The compulsory pit-stop during Race One remains in which a minimum of two tyres must be changed. This pit stop may not be carried out until the driver has completed six laps.

Its clearly a different situation as GP2 only has 30 mins of practice before Qualifying. But the free reign on when to use the Softs is a good idea.
 
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Well we had plenty of trains of drivers in China....

Even if they removed the tyres used in Q3 must start the race I bet you would find the top 10 all still use more or less the same strategy and start on the same tyres as they all know the fastest way to get to the flag.
 
You're saying something completely different, LASTING 15 laps while the tyres are being nursed isn't remotely same as tyres that can last for the same or even a couple less laps at full car pace.

You can go around at say, 1:42 a lap, for 20 laps, but the car is capable of 1:38, however if you do 1:38 laps you won't even get 10 laps out of them before they become useless. It's not that you can go 1;38 for for 5 laps then they just slow down to 1:42's anyway, you'd do 5 laps at 1:38, 5 at 1:42, and another 5 at 1:48 while risking going off the track at every corner, and going in for new tyres would ruin your race anyway.

I think kimi is the first person all season to go out on a soft tyre and gain on hard tyre guys, but he gained on the hard tyre also, he just had genuine pace. Both Mclarens went out on softs in the second stint last week, everyone else(just about) was on hards, and they were exactly no faster at all. If you save a set of softs, and use them in the race, you gain no speed because while over 1 second faster a lap the tyres at that speed, go off in only a few laps, so you end up doing the exact same pace as the hard tyre, making it worthless.

Everyone up and down the grid is going the pace their tyres allow, not the pace their car nor their driving skill allows, and that means we don't see the car pace, nor the drivers pace, but that set of tyres particular pace, that isn't racing, that is comparing sets of rubber, almost as interesting as paint drying.

I think part of the reason Hamilton didn't get ahead of Alonso at the end was, tyres and saving them, but the other part was very likely his team saying Alonso is going to get a ridiculously obvious penalty, and Rossberg too, so you're actually in a good position so just save the tyres and make sure you last to the end of the race, as everyone went in a couple laps early.

But that should tell you something, everyone went in a couple laps early because when the first guy goes in, the undercut can gain you several seconds, and the extra two laps doesn't matter because 20 laps later one guy has two lap older tyres....... and they are both slow as hell at that point. Everyone went in early because the tyres were starting to go, and almost everyone had just spent a stint saving tyres rather than gaining positions, then they all went in early, and all had to save tyres again rather than gain positions.

We've got both, tyres ruling everyones race pace, not the car, not the ability and to cap it off one proper lock of your tyres, one single corners mistake in 20 laps and hundreds of corners and you can kill any chance of catching the guy in front. Again, its not racing, its akin to watching football and not seeing who is the best team on the day, who plays the best football, its who has the best boots on.

Pretty much spot on imo.

Lets not also forget fuel saving too.

F1 should just go back to fuel stops, let teams decide what fuel strategy they want to use. Same with tyres, get back to proper racing tyres and get rid of all this "you have to use x compound" rubbish and let the teams decide which they want to use for maximum pace.

If F1 went back to proper racing tyres then we would see who the best drivers are and car would have less to do with it, even with an inferior car I'm sure the likes of Alonso/Hamilton could wrestle their cars around the track much faster with tyres that allow it.

As it stands F1 favours whoever is best at nursing tyres whilst maintaining good pace, this is not real racing.
 
They knew from Friday the tyres degraded quick
schumachers main concern is that he wasnt racing he was driving to a delta time set by the team and his pace was there abouts where the mclarens were to a few tenths which isnt bad for someone in traffic for pretty much the whole race

i reckon we will see a lot more drivers voice concerns now.

surely hamilton , alonso and anyone else who has the ability to push lap after lap isnt happy with having to drive slowly for the majority of the race
 
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schumachers main concern is that he wasnt racing he was driving to a delta time set by the team and his pace was there abouts where the mclarens were to a few tenths which isnt bad for someone in traffic for pretty much the whole race

Any source for this? Do you have the timesheet of his laptimes to see how consistent he was with this delta?

Did he complain about it in China when his team won?
 
Any source for this? Do you have the timesheet of his laptimes to see how consistent he was with this delta?

Did he complain about it in China when his team won?

we have schumachers word that he was driving to a delta time surely that is enough?
heres schumachers laptimes
http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?...f=3&dr1=Michael Schumacher&dr2=Lewis Hamilton

i find it interesting that scumachers fastest lap was directly after the outlap for his last stop and if you look hamiltons is exactly the same.
its pretty clear they werent both going flat out and were just conserving the tyres even when they were fresh

vettel and raikkonen both set there fastest laptime directly following an outlap to
 
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Aside from the timing of MS outburst (which I agree seems to be part tantrum), he does have a point, the problem is how to solve it without reducing the 'racing' we have been seeing.

But then thats the problem we have been trying to solve for years and why artificial things like DRS exist. Im still of the viewpoint of reducing aerodynamics drastically rather than changing mechanical grip based on my thoughts that one will more benefit road car technology over the other...

Pirelli were asked to do a job, which Ive think theyve done brillantly, if what they were asked to do was wrong in the first place (or too extreme) then thats FIAs fault and not Pirelli IMO

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
so he suffered no major drop off in the tyres, maybe he should have went faster...if he is being held back so much then why did they not do a 4 stop?

And why did he not complain about it in China? Nico is getting to him maybe...
 
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