New Canon full frame?

Pentax are already in medium format.

No matter how cheap the sensors can get, decent glass will always be incredibly expensive, and glass is always the majority of the costs of a photographer's gear bar occasionally studio lighting.

As for 'opinions'
1. The difference in IQ is not noticeable until you're inspecting gallery prints or 100% crops. Fact. Human eyes just aren't that good.
2. The longest lens I know of in medium format (645D) is 400mm f/5.6, which is roughly 250mm FF equivalent. That's not long enough to make sports viable and the lens costs £3,000 already. So again, it's a fact that long enough lenses for wildlife and sports don't exist in the MF world.
3. It's a fact that no MF setup exists that gives shallower depth of field in the real world than an 85 at 1.2 or even 1.4. The closest you get is a Haselblad 110mm f/2 which gives a similar image to a 77mm f/1.4, which is close, but then the vast majority of everything else on MF is f/2.8 or slower, and it gets slower a lot faster as you get longer than you get on FF.
4. DXOMark tests have proven the D800 sensor to be more than capable of trouncing current MF cameras (in every area other than cropping/apparent sharpness) and even the D800's dynamic range, colour depth etc. are largely luxuries over other cameras rather than genuine advantages.
5. 35mm cameras can basically shoot in the dark already, fact. At this rate of progress the better noise performance argument for larger sensors will fade away. That's the closest thing to an opinion in the whole argument.

Firstly, they are genuine advantages 'not luxuries', you sound like a fanboy trying to down play the advantages of dynamic range and noise free shadows, just because Canon doesn't score well. If DR is irrelevant to you, please don't be ignorant to the rest of the photographic world.

Secondly you have ignored my reply above and continue to judge MF feasibility by what is available today. There was a time when the motor car was made only by a few small businesses, and horses were still by far the best way to travel... then look what happened.
 
Firstly, they are genuine advantages 'not luxuries', you sound like a fanboy trying to down play the advantages of dynamic range and noise free shadows, just because Canon doesn't score well. If DR is irrelevant to you, please don't be ignorant to the rest of the photographic world.

Secondly you have ignored my reply above and continue to judge MF feasibility by what is available today. There was a time when the motor car was made only by a few small businesses, and horses were still by far the best way to travel... then look what happened.

First, sure, to some people. But my point had NOTHING to do with Canon vs Nikon, not everybody cares quite as much as you do about that. It was that we've gotten to a point where cameras have gotten to a point where we don't need any more; while the Canon's might be limited there is very very little use for any more DR or colour depth than the D800 has.

Secondly, none of what I said will change with new tech in the medium format arena, please point out something that will change rather than just blathering on about opinions when I state facts, and changes in technology when I'm talking about inherent traits of both systems and constants.

Human eyes aren't getting any better so the IQ difference won't become apparent. physics isn't changing very soon.

Glass won't get significantly faster any time soon, nor will it get cheaper; e.g. the no-holds-barred Noctilux has been a 50 f/1 for decades and we can't get any (noticeably) faster than that. As such the DoF will remain generally deeper than on FF but with the disadvantage of having to stop down to f/32 for full DoF which has huge repercussions for macro work etc. Same goes for the telephoto end of things. Sure they might be provided, but they'd all cost tens of thousands of dollars.

The noise performance issue is something that will get LESS of an issue as tech improves in both arenas as nobody needs or really wants more than a usable 25,600 ISO.
 
First, sure, to some people. But my point had NOTHING to do with Canon vs Nikon, not everybody cares quite as much as you do about that.

It had EVERYTHING to do with Canon vs Nikon, otherwise why go out of your way to try to put down real advantages as meaningless luxuries. It seems you can't help yourself.

Secondly, none of what I said will change with new tech in the medium format arena, please point out something that will change rather than just blathering on about opinions when I state facts, and changes in technology when I'm talking about inherent traits of both systems and constants.

Human eyes aren't getting any better so the IQ difference won't become apparent. physics isn't changing very soon.

Glass won't get significantly faster any time soon, nor will it get cheaper; e.g. the no-holds-barred Noctilux has been a 50 f/1 for decades and we can't get any (noticeably) faster than that. As such the DoF will remain generally deeper than on FF but with the disadvantage of having to stop down to f/32 for full DoF which has huge repercussions for macro work etc. Same goes for the telephoto end of things. Sure they might be provided, but they'd all cost tens of thousands of dollars.

The noise performance issue is something that will get LESS of an issue as tech improves in both arenas as nobody needs or really wants more than a usable 25,600 ISO.

I think you may be a little ignorant of the direction technology is heading.
SLT technology allows DSLR to be built much smaller. Thus MF will be able to fit in a D800/5D form factor.
As for costs, I think your completely ignoring the factors of economies of scale. Instead you are citing the that MF lenses cost a fortune because of 'all the glass', when the truth is they are not actually that much bigger than 35mm format lenses.
Has it not occurred to you that MF lenses are incredibly expensive because they are extremely exotic, extremely niche products only aimed at a tiny uber high end market.
An example of 'exotic' product pricing, do you really think the 85mm 1.4G really costs Nikon £900 more to manufacture than the 85mm 1.8G, especially considering the 85 1.8 is actually optically better?
Do you really think that the D4 costs nearly £3000 more to manufacture than the D800?

With the advent of smaller pancake lenses etc, I'm sure similar technologies could be employed in the MF market to produce smaller, faster lenses.
 
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You really should listen to yourself, you preach that people should be more objective yet completely fail to do the same yourself. You're on a massive crusade against Canon and take every opportunity to put your oar in to make out Canon cameras are useless and Nikon are far superior. It's sad to see and has turned this forum into a child's playground.

It was proposed a while back to have a sub forum for all the gear related talk, if that doesn't happen soon more people will just drift off to other forums. It's almost dead in here as it is.
 
Did you actually read my post(s) Rojin, and some of the other posters for that matter?
If this thread isn't to your liking, maybe take your camera out for a spin instead.
 
Firstly, they are genuine advantages 'not luxuries', you sound like a fanboy trying to down play the advantages of dynamic range and noise free shadows, just because Canon doesn't score well.

LOVE this comment... coming from Nikon's biggest fanboy on OCUK! :D
 
Did you actually read my post(s) Rojin, and some of the other posters for that matter?
If this thread isn't to your liking, maybe take your camera out for a spin instead.

Yes I have, some are interesting, some just come across as fanboy\troll posts. That's the way I see it. Lately there have been a lot of un-needed (imo) confrontational posts in a variety of threads (not singling you out, others also) and I just plain don't enjoy this forum anymore. It wasn't always like this so I guess I'd just liked things as they were.

You didn't get on with your 550D, I get that. I know you hate the 7D, I get that. You're more than happy with your D700's, I get that. I know that the D800 has a great sensor, with nice DR. If your photography benefits from that then that is a body that you should be looking at. Of course for a lot of people DR isn't the be all and end all and other camera bodies whilst not having the top mark in DXOMark are still eminently suitable for their needs. Ultimately the differences between a lot of the cameras may be minor for one person yet major for another, I can live with that perhaps some more understanding of that from yourself might just tone down your posts more? Putting your opinion across as just that, your opinion, would be easier to read than the "crusade like, factual, everyone knows Canon is rubbish, you're idiots for using them" tone that some of your posts come across as.

You might not believe me, but if I was not shooting Canon I would still have the same opinion as stated above.
 
Some stuff is being announced in August. No idea if that'll rear it's head though. I'd have thought you'll be waiting a year for that.
 
Some stuff is being announced in August. No idea if that'll rear it's head though. I'd have thought you'll be waiting a year for that.

Rumours are the Canon full frame will be displayed at Photokina 18 - 23 September 2012. I was hoping there may be some official word of the specs leading up to that. I suppose it depends on Nikon and the D600 release. Whoever gets the release date right is in line to make a lot of money assuming it's highly desirable. There's a lot of people holding of on buying anything or evilbaying their old kit in the run up.
 
Rumours are the Canon full frame will be displayed at Photokina 18 - 23 September 2012. I was hoping there may be some official word of the specs leading up to that. I suppose it depends on Nikon and the D600 release. Whoever gets the release date right is in line to make a lot of money assuming it's highly desirable. There's a lot of people holding of on buying anything or evilbaying their old kit in the run up.

im getting a 5d3! thats my entry level ff
 
Not entirely convinced with my Panasonic GH2 so am looking to upgrade as my interest in photography is on the increase! I'll wait to see what Canon releases and go with that or maybe the Nikon D800.
 
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Rumours are the Canon full frame will be displayed at Photokina 18 - 23 September 2012. I was hoping there may be some official word of the specs leading up to that. I suppose it depends on Nikon and the D600 release. Whoever gets the release date right is in line to make a lot of money assuming it's highly desirable. There's a lot of people holding of on buying anything or evilbaying their old kit in the run up.

It will be interesting to see what they take out of the 5D3 to make this happen or what average lens they pair it with in a kit because they can't pair it with a 24-70mk2. As I said before I can't see it happening while the 24-70 is so expensive in comparison to the competition :(
 
It will be interesting to see what they take out of the 5D3 to make this happen or what average lens they pair it with in a kit because they can't pair it with a 24-70mk2. As I said before I can't see it happening while the 24-70 is so expensive in comparison to the competition :(

Good point, the problem for them is the Canon 5D Mark II is still a fantastic camera. It's possible the full frame release will end up being significantly worse than the Mark II. I'm not particularly interested in autofocus issues with the Mark II so I may just go for that as I have a suspicion the entry level full frame won't have the same image quality. The Mark III was heavily criticized for being a minor upgrade so I don't hold out any great hopes for the entry level full frame.
 
I honestly thing they have dropped the ball releasing the mk2 before an entry level FF. Even if the body was £1500 (unlikey) it would still make an entry level camera with the mk2 £3500.

I really have no idea what they are playing at with their body range and where every thing will sit. 70D 7D2? and entry level FF.

If you already own the 24-70mk1 then great this entry level FF might be just the thing but it's unlikely you own that lens without previously owning a FF anyway.
 
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