*** The 2014 Gym Rats Thread ***

[davejh666]

Crazy is one word: unbalanced and - quite possibly - dangerous are another couple I can think of, given your proposal of 3*10 on deadlifts and 3*20 squats in a smith machine... and upright rows? Please don't do these. Also, as a cyclist, you should actually be doing a fair old amount of core work (this is different to 'abz' work) to make sure your power transfer is efficient whilst cycling.

Please do as Begbie suggests and go and read up about Stronglifts/Starting Strength or - for a great basic bodybuilding routine - the Beginner's guide linked in the OP of this thread. As somebody who's not that worried about legs, you have a lot of very specific exercises for legs...

My squats are of very light weight. I have cartilage damage in my left knee which gives me really bad pain if I put too much weight through it. Running does the same to me, which is why I vary the c/v work between rowing and running. In fact all of my leg work is quite light weight stuff.

I do a fair bit of core work, not just abs work. What is wrong specifically with upright rows?

However, thanks for the advice and I have had a look at the starting strength routine. I will start using this when I go up the gym next on Wednesday.

 

[davejh666]

Your workout is crazy.

I know you say you want to build muscle, and mostly upper body. But it may be worth simplyfying things drastically untill such a point you have more knowledge in such things.

Starting Strength etc, is a good starting point. It will involve squatting 3 times a week, which sounds obstructive to your goals. But a strong base will help you no end in building a stronger upper body/size.

Thanks for the advice.

The issue I have with squat work is that my left knee just can't take a massive amount of weight, and squating 3 times a week will quickly turn me into a cripple I think. I have the same issue if I do more than 2 runs a week.

Any suggestions as to what I could do instead? I

 

[FrenchTart]

So..the three day split in the beginner's guide. Looking at the exercises in there I'm wondering if I could potentially do a session every 24-36 hours rather than always waiting for the full 48. There seems to be a fair gap in terms of crossover between day 2 and day 3. Not so much day 1 and day 2.

My main concern in terms of shortening my rest between day 2 and 3 would be that there are dead lifts on day 2 and other leg work on day 3. Perhaps it would be worth moving the deads to day 3 if I were to go this route?

All done with olympic dumbells btw. I've been doing SL for a fair while but this routine enables me to do stuff at home.

My set up:

Day 1 - Chest/Shoulder/Triceps
Bench Press 4 * 8
Skull Crushers 3 * 8
Close Grip BP 3 * 8
Overhead Press 3 * 8
Lateral DB Raises 3 * 8

Day 2 - Back/Biceps
Dead Lifts 3 * 8
BOR 3 * 8
Chin Ups (Alt. Grips) 3 * 8
Curls 3 * 8
Hammer Curls 3 * 8

Day 3 - Legs/Abs
Squats 3 * 8
Lunges 3 * 8
Calf Raises 3 * 8
Rollouts 3 * 8

 

[FrenchTart]

Reading up a bit more I'm probably not as crazy as I thought for wanting to do stuff most days (I would aim for every day and most likely end up doing 5 days per week).

Can anyone recommend any changes to the above routine to help me with that goal? Or just say "go with it as-is" if that's all I need to do.

I will be carrying on doing tons of cycling on top of this as I enjoy it. I have got to the point where I can tell when my body is overloaded and then I'll (reluctantly) have a rest day from cycling/possibly anything.

 

[mrthingyx]

My squats are of very light weight. I have cartilage damage in my left knee which gives me really bad pain if I put too much weight through it. Running does the same to me, which is why I vary the c/v work between rowing and running. In fact all of my leg work is quite light weight stuff.

I do a fair bit of core work, not just abs work. What is wrong specifically with upright rows?

However, thanks for the advice and I have had a look at the starting strength routine. I will start using this when I go up the gym next on Wednesday.

What is the prognosis from your physio? I ask because a decent physio should be trying to recover enough of your mobility to help you achieve what you want, post-injury...

And using a smith machine for squats, leg curls and deadlifts isn't a great way to not aggravate a cartilage problem. Are you sure it's cartilage and not really bad IT band, borked quads or non-existent hamstrings?

Upright rows cause impingement of one of your shoulder muscles, potentially causing tendinitis or winding up even worse. Put it this way, the upright row end position is used by physios to test for shoulder problems...

@FrenchTart: go nuts. Provided you are recovering enough, then it isn't a problem...

 

[davejh666]

What is the prognosis from your physio? I ask because a decent physio should be trying to recover enough of your mobility to help you achieve what you want, post-injury...

And using a smith machine for squats, leg curls and deadlifts isn't a great way to not aggravate a cartilage problem. Are you sure it's cartilage and not really bad IT band, borked quads or non-existent hamstrings?

Upright rows cause impingement of one of your shoulder muscles, potentially causing tendinitis or winding up even worse. Put it this way, the upright row end position is used by physios to test for shoulder problems...

@Frenchtart: go nuts. Provided you are recovering enough, then it isn't a problem...

I don't see a physio anymore. I saw a doctor at Three Shires hospital in Northampton about 4 years ago. I was doing a lot of running at the time and would have to keep resting my knee from any exercise after a couple of weeks due to excruciating pain. Like you, he said I over pronounce my foot when running which was causing runners knee (which I think is the IT band ligament). However, he did say there were bits of cartiladge floating about in my knee as well.

I sorted the pronounce problem out by buying a decent set of asics running shoes which stop me from doing it as much. However, it still plays up when I am doing heavy lifting on it, which is why I was going for lighter weights.

In regards to the smith machine, we don't have a squat rack at my gym. At the moment I am only squating with 40kg, but I have no choice to but to use the smith as I cant lift a 40kg weight onto my shoulders any other way. Was thinking about just using dumbells in my hands, but would that be any better?

Thanks for the info on the upright rows, had no idea they can cause issues. Will stop them. I am going to follow the beginners strength routine that is on here, just still concerned about the squats!!

 

[tom_e]

You may find free weight squats are actually easier on your knee, I find the smith machine locks me into a very unnatural and uncomfortable pattern of movement that I just don't get on with and yes you could hold a 20kg db in each hand and squat that way.

 

[mrthingyx]

I don't see a physio anymore. I saw a doctor at Three Shires hospital in Northampton about 4 years ago. I was doing a lot of running at the time and would have to keep resting my knee from any exercise after a couple of weeks due to excruciating pain. Like you, he said I over pronounce my foot when running which was causing runners knee (which I think is the IT band ligament). However, he did say there were bits of cartiladge floating about in my knee as well.

I sorted the pronounce problem out by buying a decent set of asics running shoes which stop me from doing it as much. However, it still plays up when I am doing heavy lifting on it, which is why I was going for lighter weights.

In regards to the smith machine, we don't have a squat rack at my gym. At the moment I am only squating with 40kg, but I have no choice to but to use the smith as I cant lift a 40kg weight onto my shoulders any other way. Was thinking about just using dumbells in my hands, but would that be any better?

Thanks for the info on the upright rows, had no idea they can cause issues. Will stop them. I am going to follow the beginners strength routine that is on here, just still concerned about the squats!!

Cool and useful info - thanks.

Regarding your knee, yes: you may have cartilage floating around in the synovial fluid (which won't persist long-term thanks to the way the body deals with 'foreign bodies'). However, as a runner, you probably have atrocious mobility and tightness in your muscles (IT band, quads, hamstrings... you name it) which is quite probably compounding any problems with your knees... so I would strongly suggest checking out the mobility thread (also linked in the OP) to see what you can do to fix this.

Secondly, as tom_e points out, squatting in a smith machine can actually make things worse (depending on your technique). If you have pre-existing issues with your knees and were a runner, the chances are that you simply aren't using your hips or ankles, putting extra stress on your poor knees that shouldn't be there.

Finally, I would suggest starting back with goblet squats as - depending on how heavy your plates/dumbells go in the gym - you can get quite a good workout with these. This will also give you an idea as to how bad your mobility is (or isn't) as the goblet squat is very 'forgiving' as it's not particularly heavy.

From there, you can progress to Bulgarian split squats using dumbells and eventually deficit variants (we'll get to that bit later).

 

[davejh666]

Cool and useful info - thanks.

Regarding your knee, yes: you may have cartilage floating around in the synovial fluid (which won't persist long-term thanks to the way the body deals with 'foreign bodies'). However, as a runner, you probably have atrocious mobility and tightness in your muscles (IT band, quads, hamstrings... you name it) which is quite probably compounding any problems with your knees... so I would strongly suggest checking out the mobility thread (also linked in the OP) to see what you can do to fix this.

Secondly, as tom_e points out, squatting in a smith machine can actually make things worse (depending on your technique). If you have pre-existing issues with your knees and were a runner, the chances are that you simply aren't using your hips or ankles, putting extra stress on your poor knees that shouldn't be there.

Finally, I would suggest starting back with goblet squats as - depending on how heavy your plates/dumbells go in the gym - you can get quite a good workout with these. This will also give you an idea as to how bad your mobility is (or isn't) as the goblet squat is very 'forgiving' as it's not particularly heavy.

From there, you can progress to Bulgarian split squats using dumbells and eventually deficit variants (we'll get to that bit later).

Thanks, I will look at the mobility thread when I get home from work tonight.

Quick question, I am looking at doing the beginners strength that is linked to in here on a 3 day split. I am going to make minor alterations to it in terms of thr squats. I was wondering however as to if core work could, or should, be done everyday? At the moment I do barbell pushouts, sit ups and something with a medicine ball (cant think what it called), where you sit on the floor and raise you feet about 6 inches from the ground and alternate side to side for a minute. I do these every visit to the gym, is that too much? Should they be done the same as any other exercise, once a week to allow the muscle to rest/heal?

And, is there any issue with doing cv work (rower or treadmill) every time I go?

Thanks.

 

[mrthingyx]

Thanks, I will look at the mobility thread when I get home from work tonight.

Quick question, I am looking at doing the beginners strength that is linked to in here on a 3 day split. I am going to make minor alterations to it in terms of thr squats. I was wondering however as to if core work could, or should, be done everyday? At the moment I do barbell pushouts, sit ups and something with a medicine ball (cant think what it called), where you sit on the floor and raise you feet about 6 inches from the ground and alternate side to side for a minute. I do these every visit to the gym, is that too much? Should they be done the same as any other exercise, once a week to allow the muscle to rest/heal?

And, is there any issue with doing cv work (rower or treadmill) every time I go?

Thanks.

Core work? Stick to barbell roll-outs and hanging leg raises (I prefer some other stuff, but...). Sit-ups will do you no favours in the core strength area, nor your lumbar.

And do it every day - it won't murder your CNS or muscles like strength or hypertrophy work will. And what are you doing with the squats?

Regarding CV work, my guess is the running is actually causing your knee problems (note: I'm not a doctor or a physio!) as a derivative of your poor mobility, so I'd encourage you to stick to something like cycling, swimming or those horrid cross-trainers if you absolutely HAVE To do CV work... i.e. something that does not cause significant, direct knee impact/stress.

 

[Xire]

opinions on the ice cream work out?

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/jason-blaha-ice-cream-fitness-5x5-novice-workout

 

[davejh666]

I am going to try them goblet squats tonight and see how I go. I know the plates only go up to 20kg each, think the dumbells are about 40's (ain't got that heavy yet ).

I hate the cross trainer, I do a 5 min warm up on it and that's bad enough. Do enough cycling so ain't getting on an exercise bike. I will stick to just the rower for the time being, be safest.

 

[uv]

opinions on the ice cream work out?

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/jason-blaha-ice-cream-fitness-5x5-novice-workout

It's just your standard SL 5x5 with additional accessory work. Can't go wrong with it really.

 

[mrthingyx]

I am going to try them goblet squats tonight and see how I go. I know the plates only go up to 20kg each, think the dumbells are about 40's (ain't got that heavy yet ��).

Start without a plate/weight... then go up in 5kg increments.

I hate the cross trainer, I do a 5 min warm up on it and that's bad enough. Do enough cycling so ain't getting on an exercise bike. I will stick to just the rower for the time being, be safest.

Rowing might be ok on your knees, but only you can be the judge of this. Just be careful.

 

[Somnambulist]

opinions on the ice cream work out?

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/jason-blaha-ice-cream-fitness-5x5-novice-workout

I wouldn't recommend it a complete beginner because they should be putting most of their time/effort into getting the main lifts down - they'd be better off with the basic SL5x5 program - and also it's a lot of volume straight away if you've not got much in the way of work capacity due to being new to weights.

The main issue with it for everyone else is that once it gets to the stage where you're actively pushing yourself hard to improve, the workouts can take a long time to complete, although this is an issue with most of the non-basic full body x3 a week routines in general.

 

[icecold]

Roll outs are a bit too advanced for a beginner. Learn to plank properly first and go from there.

 

[reiyushin]

Bit off topic but what ever happened to LiE, dom, UE etc?

I'm just scrolling back through the forums playing catchup and a lot of the old names have vanished!

 

[mrthingyx]

Roll outs are a bit too advanced for a beginner. Learn to plank properly first and go from there.

You mean all those Pilates chicks with their Swiss balls are actually hardcore lifters?

I preferred them when starting out because doing planks was dull...

 

[tom_e]

Bit off topic but what ever happened to LiE, dom, UE etc?

I'm just scrolling back through the forums playing catchup and a lot of the old names have vanished!

LiE isn't lifting at the minute AFAIK due to injuries, dom and UE are still around although UE is more active in the FB group than on here.

 

[Begbie]

I am going to try them goblet squats tonight and see how I go. I know the plates only go up to 20kg each, think the dumbells are about 40's (ain't got that heavy yet ).

I hate the cross trainer, I do a 5 min warm up on it and that's bad enough. Do enough cycling so ain't getting on an exercise bike. I will stick to just the rower for the time being, be safest.

Do you need cardio?

If you're doing a fair bit of cycling anyway, unless you're aiming to lose weight or be fitter in a cardio sense then I'd just drop the cardio completely and concentrate on weight training.

Or add in more cycling if you find you need/want more cardio?