Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

[Aldav]

"An extreme form of patriotism marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries". Which is exactly what I've said:

Can anyone play dictionary definition one-upmanship.

Here's my contribution, an extract of one of several definitions from what is generally regarded as the English language reference dictionary, the full OED, :-

1.

a. Advocacy of or support for the interests of one's own nation, esp. to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations. Also: advocacy of or support for national independence or self-determination.

Whereas patriotism usually refers to a general sentiment, nationalism now usually refers to a specific ideology, esp. one expressed through political activism. In earlier use, however, the two appear to have been more or less interchangeable.

I've added the bold to stress the Brexit relevance, but the small text is as per the OED itself.

Nothing in that requires a feeling of superiority over other countries.

The problem with dictionary definitions, or perhaps with English as a language, is that they are numerous and the applicable definition has to be derived in part from context, and perhaps in part from the inferred intent of whoever used the word or term. Even the OED, however highly respected, is not an official arbiter of meaning.

Oh, and I've not given a link as it's a subscription service to the online version. I don't know what, if anything, is available without subscription.

 

[Skunkworks]

Patriotism and national pride are the antithesis of the self-loathing millennial left and must be demonised at every opportunity.

 

[shephga]

Just watched Brexit the movie, has made me so angry, can't wait to vote out. If you've not watched it and you're undecided give it a watch.

 

[Destination]

There are different views on fairness and value of contribution. It's arguably fair and arguably unfair for a minimum wage person to get a state pension. It's arguably fair and arguably unfair to just look at net contribution in isolation (rather than taking into account eg. how we need low paid workers to do the jobs they do).

You can be as arguably fair as you like.
I am trying to seek figures, to see if this will end up in a disastrous additional pensions time bomb come thirty years time.

Which 'arguably' won't be fair to my child and any potential grandchildren.
Since this is my decision to make now, but clearly WILL have an effect many years down the line.

 

[Tunney]

Germany has just declared Turkey committed genocide against the Armenians, Turkey will not be joining any time soon.

The biggest barrier is Cyprus' right to veto their admission. Until the northern Cyprus issue is resolved, Turkey won't be joining.

 

[scorza]

the other thing to remember about Turkey , they have recently gone off the deep end of nuttyness with massive crackdowns on press freedom etc - Erdogan is taking them more and more away from EU membership if anything

Another thing to remember about Turkey is that the currently have the EU completely over a barrel with regards to this migrant crisis. One of the things they managed to extract from the EU was visa-free travel for Turkish citizens within the Schengen area. If they'd given up on the idea of EU membership why would they care about that?

 

[v0n]

Just watched Brexit the movie, has made me so angry, can't wait to vote out. If you've not watched it and you're undecided give it a watch.

Majority of statements made by the movie are untrue. That's not an internet forum opinion, spend five minutes on google for legitimate sources debunking claims made in that mocumentary.

 

[[TW]Fox]

One of the things they managed to extract from the EU was visa-free travel for Turkish citizens within the Schengen area. If they'd given up on the idea of EU membership why would they care about that?

Why wouldn't they? It makes life easier for their citizens. Do New Zealand want to join the EU? Does Columbia? The United Arab Emirates? They all have visa free travel to the EU as well.

 

[swillsy]

Majority of statements made by the movie are untrue. That's not an internet forum opinion, spend five minutes on google for legitimate sources debunking claims made in that mocumentary.

Majority??? Dude listen to yourself. It's biased but your in dreamland

 

[do_ron_ron]

Why wouldn't they? It makes life easier for their citizens. Do New Zealand want to join the EU? Does Columbia? The United Arab Emirates? They all have visa free travel to the EU as well.

Fail geography at school? Last time I looked New Zealand, Columbia and the UAE were not in Europe.

 

[Tefal]

Fail geography at school? Last time I looked New Zealand, Columbia and the UAE were not in Europe.

Did you kiss read the posts or soemthing there ron

 

[[TW]Fox]

Fail geography at school? Last time I looked New Zealand, Columbia and the UAE were not in Europe.

Gosh I had no idea

My point is that 'because they want in the EU' is not the reason they want visa free travel. Heck most of this thread doesn't want to be in the EU but I bet you'll want visa free travel to Europe

 

[Chris Wilson]

You can be as arguably fair as you like.
I am trying to seek figures, to see if this will end up in a disastrous additional pensions time bomb come thirty years time.

Which 'arguably' won't be fair to my child and any potential grandchildren.
Since this is my decision to make now, but clearly WILL have an effect many years down the line.

Figures flow freely here until they debunk the arguments of those who wish to remain. You have enlightened me as to yet another good reason to vote to leave, and I thank you for that. The failure of the Remainers to give you solid data after several requests has to be assumed as a confirmation of your fears for your grand children's future.


People here talk of Turkey, for example, as not being likely to be admitted for at "least ten years" as if such a period was similar to that between Queen Victoria and Queen Elizabeth the second. It's but a tick of the clock in realistic terms. I think it's a youth thing, time goes so slowly when you are a juvenile. As you become more mature that which appeared to be so distant in the future as to be unworthy of thought is suddenly upon one, ready or not.

 

[stewski]

Can someone get a grip in the brexit camp and accept Turkey are not on the table to join the EU, such a non issue it isn't real.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Can someone get a grip in the brexit camp and accept Turkey are not on the table to join the EU, such a non issue it isn't real.

They are wasting time they could be spending arguing actual sensible and realistic points.

 

[phil675]

Turkey can't be ignored, Germany have been gagging for them to join for ages, they will find a way. Greece shouldn't really have joined, but they found a way to fudge it.

 

[.Lethal]

Heck most of this thread doesn't want to be in the EU but I bet you'll want visa free travel to Europe

Are you suggesting because people would prefer visa free travel that we should vote to remain apart of the EU for this reason alone?

 

[[TW]Fox]

Are you suggesting because people would prefer visa free travel that we should vote to remain apart of the EU for this reason alone?

No? It's an example of why visa free travel isn't quite as linked to the EU as Chris was implying it was.

If we voted to leave I would be absolutely staggered if we didn't have Visa free travel to Schengen area (Not the EU, of course, because the EU isn't all Schengen and Schengen isn't all EU!). Most of of the rest of the developed world does, after all.

 

[izzop]

Just watched Brexit the movie, has made me so angry, can't wait to vote out. If you've not watched it and you're undecided give it a watch.

Same goes for...

Paxman in Brussels: Who Really Rules Us?

Very much worth a watch and if anyone I knew said they were still undecided due to not having a clue on how the EU works I'd suggest they watch it.

 

[scorza]

Why wouldn't they? It makes life easier for their citizens. Do New Zealand want to join the EU? Does Columbia? The United Arab Emirates? They all have visa free travel to the EU as well.

I'm sure they'd like to be in the EU as well - just on their terms and not the EU's. Turkey cannot be ignored - if we stay in the EU then we'll be in for a long time, possibly forever. Are people really so sure that Turkey will not join the EU in that time frame?