Poll: Exit Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Results discussion and OcUK Exit Poll - Closing 8th July

[SlugForAButt]

Well, there was little demand for a referendum on any of the various treaties that got us to this point, and we voted for the respective governments and gave them a mandate to allow them to get us to this point, so the nation has plenty of opportunity.

So yes, we did vote to join the EU. Much as we voted to go to war in Iraq, allow additional billions of tax to be taken from our pension funds, put the NHS in the position it is in today, promote diesel cars as environmental salvation and ban fox hunting.

That's the way our democracy works.

Disagree completely. Your first paragraph is absolutely stupid.

 

[D.P.]

Nobody voted to join the EU, the voted to join a common market, and every single one of those governments should have given the country the chance to vote on it long before we did.

Nobody voted to leave the Euroepan Economic Area and no one voted to end Freedom of Movement, so by your logic we should absolutely uphold the ER 4 freedoms with a soft brexit. People only voted on leaving the EU, nothing else like FoM.

 

[The_Abyss]

Disagree completely. Your first paragraph is absolutely stupid.

So what's your understanding of how we arrived at this position?

 

[Irish_Tom]

I'm really interested to see what deal TM is able to negotiate with the DUP, purely as a test of her negotiating skills.

If she gets a bum deal from that minor negotiation, what hope do we have for a decent Brexit deal?

 

[a1ex2001]

Well, there was little demand for a referendum on any of the various treaties that got us to this point, and we voted for the respective governments and gave them a mandate to allow them to get us to this point, so the nation has plenty of opportunity.

So yes, we did vote to join the EU. Much as we voted to go to war in Iraq, allow additional billions of tax to be taken from our pension funds, put the NHS in the position it is in today, promote diesel cars as environmental salvation and ban fox hunting.

That's the way our democracy works.

There was huge demand for a reffurendum on the European Constitution and the subsequent Lisbon treaty. The labour government promised a reffurendum on the constitution, canned it after half of Europe rejected it and then bottled it and signed the lisbon treaty without consulting the people thus bringing in the constitution.

 

[a1ex2001]

I'm really interested to see what deal TM is able to negotiate with the DUP, purely as a test of her negotiating skills.

If she gets a bum deal from that minor negotiation, what hope do we have for a decent Brexit deal?

I don't see how she gets anything but a bum deal the DUP have her over a barrel and will take turns getting what ever they want.

 

[a1ex2001]

Problem is if Corbyn does somehow repalce May - even with a broad coalition he lacks the votes for any kind of cohesive progress in parliament - its going to descend into a mess of sniping, backroom deals and underhand alliances to get anything done at all.

EDIT: Not that May is really in any better position.

JC knows this can't happen or work he is simply playing the game he needs TM to fail fast so another election can be called while he is still bathing in the after glow.

 

[LeMson]

We will get to know what the deal with the dup will be or will it be hush hush like the Nissan deal in Sunderland?

 

[The_Abyss]

There was huge demand for a reffurendum on the European Constitution and the subsequent Lisbon treaty. The labour government promised a reffurendum on the constitution, canned it after half of Europe rejected it and then bottled it and signed the lisbon treaty without consulting the people thus bringing in the constitution.

After opposition from the Conservative opposition, the Lisbon Treaty was ratified. The subsequent 2010 Conservative manifesto made no promises to repeal the treaty, only going as far as to say that they wouldn't allow this to happen again. Although a coalition government was subsequently formed, and Nick Clegg had instructed his MPs to abstain they ignored him and a number voted against the treaty. Nothing was done by the subsequent government to reverse the action.

A majority voted for the governments that enacted this legislation, and then again for those who failed to change it. This is how our democracy works.

 

[Amp34]

Nobody voted to join the EU, the voted to join a common market, and every single one of those governments should have given the country the chance to vote on it long before we did.

Did we vote for the governments that agreed to closer integration?

 

[Boycey0211]

The only real people in this thread are the ones visiting the pub where Chris Wilson holds court to hear him dispense the wisdom of Solomon.

I'm from the same area as Chris Wilson, I used to sell Owen Paterson petrol on sundays for his horse box, it was at the Texaco petrol station in St.Martins. The guy was always polite but was a classic tory in appearance and holier than thou attitude, his son (about 2 years or so younger than me) used to come it and fill up his first car with petrol on the family expense account ,I still voted for him twice.

You know why? The only people that stood up to oppose him were the village idiots, hence he has been elected MP since 1997.

Also Whitchurch isnt as little England as he thinks it is, and neither is Shropshire. He is just genuinely small minded.

 

[Sankari]

The labour government promised a reffurendum on the constitution, canned it after half of Europe rejected it and then bottled it and signed the lisbon treaty without consulting the people thus bringing in the constitution.

Half of Europe did not reject the Lisbon Treaty. It was ratified by all EU members within a year.

You also forgot the part where the Labour government only signed the Lisbon Treaty after requesting and receiving a unique opt-out for justice and home affairs.

 

[StriderX]

Did we vote for the governments that agreed to closer integration?

Representative when it suits, pure democracy when it suits.

That's the wholesome British electorate and arguing with one in mind, they'll deflect with the other. Not great that Cameron and May have put up this disaster that is "the will of the people", to deflect from their own responsibility in governing sensibly.

 

[Tunney]

Conclusions


From the data that is available we cannot confirm overall average earnings of UK born workers with non-UK born workers in 2009 and 2010, although income distribution tables show that workers from the EUA8 do have lower average earnings.

Taken from the link you posted, maybe you should have read it properly instead of taking just the bit you wanted. Poland is an EUA8 state, and these were the states I was talking about when I mention Polish box packers as you well know.
Was that a lie or did you just not read your own link?

Less doesn't neccessarily mean minimum wage. Look at the graphs. The vast majority of EUA8 workers earn more than minimum wage. Don't accuse me of not reading my own link when you've clearly only skimmed it.

 

[TwsT]

I think we need better mental health care.

100% this

 

[a1ex2001]

Half of Europe did not reject the Lisbon Treaty. It was ratified by all EU members within a year.

You also forgot the part where the Labour government only signed the Lisbon Treaty after requesting and receiving a unique opt-out for justice and home affairs.

Read what I wrote.

Half of Europe rejected the European constitution which we were promised a reffurendum on our say was cancelled and then the constitution was sneaked through in the Lisbon treaty without the people being given a say. There was a large movement for a reffurendum at the time and the lack of the promised one boosted ukip no end.

 

[a1ex2001]

After opposition from the Conservative opposition, the Lisbon Treaty was ratified. The subsequent 2010 Conservative manifesto made no promises to repeal the treaty, only going as far as to say that they wouldn't allow this to happen again. Although a coalition government was subsequently formed, and Nick Clegg had instructed his MPs to abstain they ignored him and a number voted against the treaty. Nothing was done by the subsequent government to reverse the action.

A majority voted for the governments that enacted this legislation, and then again for those who failed to change it. This is how our democracy works.

You miss the bit where we were promised a reffurendum on the constitution which was then sneaked through as the Lisbon treaty after us was kicked into touch by reffurendum sin several other European countries.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Well, she is fat and she has developed type 2 diabetes which is usually lifestyle related. I'm not sure what you want me to explain excpet it looks like a crap poor excuse for being such a waste of space.

EDIT: I'm guessing you know that the explosion of Type 2 Diabetes is obesity related?

Well, I don't think calling it "fatty" helps, as not all type 2 diabetes is obesity related. My father and nephew certainly aren't obese or even slightly overweight.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Is there an alternative system to seats in parliment? God knows if it would end in anarchy but should there not be parties of qualfied people in their sectors ready to take the reigns when a party wins, and shouldn't that be solely on number of votes rather than seats.
What seems to be the case is that if you becomes an MP you are assigned a job, but how are any of these people any more qualified to do that job than me.

For examples Theresa May was foreign secretry, she was given this post why. She has a degree in geography and wanted to be an MP, that is a bit of a vague connection to make her qualified to do the job.
Let's say I decide to become an MP to my area and win, can I apply for any position in the government without prior expertise in the matter?

Baffles me.

As a government minister you are supported by the civil service who either have the relevant expertise or access it as and when necessary. An MP doesn't need to be an expert in an area for them to do a good job as minister for YYYY - being able to evaluate the evidence presented to you and make informed decisions is, of course, useful but pre-existing expertise isn't vital. Realistically no matter how good you are you can't be expert in absolutely everything that might come within the ambit of your portfolio so there is even an argument that it might be better if the minister isn't an expert/doesn't believe themselves to be an expert since they address the role with fewer preconceptions. Equally however there will be situations where the minister is an expert and makes good decisions based on existing knowledge.

There's also a practical point - what makes someone good at/an expert in certain subjects doesn't necessarily translate into them being a good politician or being able to make decisions that would benefit the country as a whole. Then you've got to consider the number of experts in certain fields, quite simply a political party with X hundred MPs can't hope to cover all bases and with the breadth of some ministers portfolios you'd have found a unicorn if they are expert in every area of their role.

 

[Tefal]

why would diabetes make her say racist things?