Poll: Exit Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Results discussion and OcUK Exit Poll - Closing 8th July

[stewski]

I'm not sure it was necessarily the biggest (maybe one of) but I do disagree with it.

As do I.
Like you I'm not sure it is the biggest error of the thatcher era, but then there are quite the number to choose from!

 

[RDM]

Do you think the words "radical authoritarian nationalist" are an unfair description of his administrations actions?

I'd probably use populist but that is beside the point. If you find that unpleasant people are supporting a politician then it might be a good idea to wonder why. Trump gets the support he does because of policies, statements and votes he wants to court. Corbyn does the same.

 

[stewski]

I'd probably use populist but that is beside the point. If you find that unpleasant people are supporting a politician then it might be a good idea to wonder why. Trump gets the support he does because of policies, statements and votes he wants to court. Corbyn does the same.

Not really an answer to the question, can the trump administration be said to fulfil the definition of fascism I.e. radical authoritarian nationalist? Any time you are ready say what you think!

Not that I disagree on the populist nor that anti establishment is a success factor for a number of politicians Macron, Corbyn and unbelievably the billionaire spoilt child observably below average business success rate trump!

 

[RDM]

Not really an answer to the question, can the trump administration be said to fulfil the definition of fascism I.e. radical authoritarian nationalist.

I'm no fan of the Trump administration, but no, I think calling them facist is lazy.

 

[stewski]

I'm no fan of the Trump administration, but no, I think calling them facist is lazy.

Out of interest,
Which of the three defining words do you see as inaccurate?

 

[Greebo]

Or you could be like the idiots who blindly dismissed immigration as causing any issues at all. Like the large net amount over the past 20 years hasn't caused any of the problems.....

Or could it be we are currently building less houses than we did in the 1920s? No let's blame immigration. I do seriously hope some Brexiteers get want they want and we have zero immigration and you will then see all the things you complained about are still there but worse. Who you going to blame then? Perhaps you might finally see it's the UK government and vote accordingly.

 

[RDM]

Out of interest,
Which of the three defining words do you see as inaccurate?

Radical and, thanks to the US constitution more than anything else, there is a limit to how authoritarian they can be.

I would suggest that the current Trump administration is populist conservative with nationalist traits.

 

[sports_brah]

Or could it be we are currently building less houses than we did in the 1920s? No let's blame immigration. I do seriously hope some Brexiteers get want they want and we have zero immigration and you will then see all the things you complained about are still there but worse. Who you going to blame then? Perhaps you might finally see it's the UK government and vote accordingly.

Hahahahahahhaaha

You just can't help yourself can you. Not sure you can even see the irony.

Someone brings someone up....no its this.

...But this factor might also be valid and also an influence?

NO ITS THIS FACTOR AND THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

Next thing: Why people voting for brexit?

 

[Greebo]

Hahahahahahhaaha

You just can't help yourself can you. Not sure you can even see the irony.

Someone brings someone up....no its this.

...But this factor might also be valid and also an influence?

NO ITS THIS FACTOR AND THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

Next thing: Why people voting for brexit?

Okay. Housing is a problem. Is it helped by the immigration we have had? No. Is immigration the major factor in the housing crisis? No, far from it.

Why do you think one minor thing affecting the housing market is its major cause and you just ignore all the major issues and do nothing about them? It's like sticking a plaster on a 6 inch knife wound. It will help but not for very long.

Not sure where irony comes into this. I never denied it wasn't a factor but it's a minor factor. That what people voting for brexit don't get. Twenty years of the DM telling the sheep it's all immigrants faults that you can't get a house and they are put up in mansions and you believe them.

There is a fact checking website I'll find the link and leading up to brexit over 90% of what the DM printed was lies.

 

[stewski]

Radical and, thanks to the US constitution more than anything else, there is a limit to how authoritarian they can be.

I would suggest that the current Trump administration is populist conservative with nationalist traits.

So sacking and attacking members of the judicial system who suggest your orders are unconstitutional, removing the head of the FBI during his investigation into you and threatening the press for defying a blatant lie are not authoritarian in your book?

 

[RDM]

So sacking and attacking members of the judicial system who suggest your orders are unconstitutional, removing the head of the FBI during his investigation into you and threatening the press for defying a blatant lie are not authoritarian in your book?

Some actions are, but are limited by the constitution. Which is pretty much what I said earlier.

 

[stewski]

So sacking and attacking members of the judicial system who suggest your orders are unconstitutional, removing the head of the FBI during his investigation into you and threatening the press for defying a blatant lie are not authoritarian in your book?

I find the great wall of mexico conceptually one of the most radical engineering proposition since the space race, not to mention his many other "policies".

Don't get me wrong, his administration will be as below average in their fascism as his business performance has been, hopefully!

 

[stewski]

Some actions are, but are limited by the constitution. Which is pretty much what I said earlier.

Playing swapsies with the judiciary until they interpret the constitution differently is not limited by the constitution!

 

[Mr Badger]

Hahahahahahhaaha

You just can't help yourself can you. Not sure you can even see the irony.

Someone brings someone up....no its this.

...But this factor might also be valid and also an influence?

NO ITS THIS FACTOR AND THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

Next thing: Why people voting for brexit?

Our lovely capitalist economy is based on growth.

The UK population has been increasing for a long time, whether by births or immigration.

London doubled in size between the two world wars.

We have a housing crisis mostly because of land banking and house building currently being at the lowest level since reliable records began in the 1920s. A particular sub issue is the selling off and non-replacement of social housing.

But look - it's our old friend Schrödinger's immigrant to the rescue once again. This week he's simultaneously causing a housing shortage whilst paying rent to a private UK landlord to live 6 to a room...

 

[Freakbro]

Radical and, thanks to the US constitution more than anything else, there is a limit to how authoritarian they can be.

I would suggest that the current Trump administration is populist conservative with nationalist traits.

I would have thought the Trump administration was the definition of Radical, I mean, he campaigned on the fact that he wasn't the political establishment and was there to shake up the whole system

 

[RDM]

Playing swapsies with the judiciary until they interpret the constitution differently is not limited by the constitution!

As the interpretation ultimately lies with the Supreme Court there are limits to how much he can play "swapsies". Also it doesn't seem to have stopped the judiciary from stopping his EOs. Nor does firing the head of the FBI seemed to have stopped him being investigated. I just think it is a lazy argument to say his administration is facist.

I would have thought the Trump administration was the definition of Radical, I mean, he campaigned on the fact that he wasn't the political establishment and was there to shake up the whole system

But then he hasn't really done all that much to shake up the whole system, so his campaign might have promised something radical, it hasn't really delivered it.

 

[stewski]

As the interpretation ultimately lies with the Supreme Court there are limits to how much he can play "swapsies". Also it doesn't seem to have stopped the judiciary from stopping his EOs. Nor does firing the head of the FBI seemed to have stopped him being investigated. I just think it is a lazy argument to say his administration is fascist.

And I think its an apologists position to say thing like, well there is still "an" investigation and the supreme court blah blah even as laws are changed to prevent blocking of sweeping changes of those in the judiciary!

 

[RDM]

And I think its an apologists position to say thing like, well there is still "an" investigation and the supreme court blah blah even as laws are changed to prevent blocking of sweeping changes of those in the judiciary!

I am not an apologist for the Trump administration, I think they are one of the worst US administrations in US history.

 

[stewski]

I am not an apologist for the Trump administration, I think they are one of the worst US administrations in US history.

Well on that we agree and likely that the competence is so low it may not impact the world massively!

But dismissal of authoritarian behaviour with hand waving is apologist!

 

[The_Abyss]

Not surprising though, we've geared the entire British economy to speculative practices rather than accumulative ones... oh how sad it will be when the speculation dries up.

Here's a bit of the detail: https://www.ft.com/content/84892c56-1a17-11e7-bcac-6d03d067f81f

Look at the market distortion they're creating, by creating debt on our behalf!