;)

[Poneros]

The current consoles were crippled by their CPU choice.

PS5 & Xbox Two will not suffer from the same limitation. For the first time we'll have a console with both the CPU & GPU in balance, meaning 60fps will become the norm, not the exception.

It's likely we'll see an 8 core Zen 2 based APU (albeit clocked lower than desktop chips, probably in the 2-3GHZ range) with a 1080Ti level GPU and at least 16GB of GDDR6 RAM, That will be a potent mix when joined with all the usual console optimisations. Much better value than anything you'll get in PC land, given the current state of the PC gaming market.

It's not down to hardware so much, if that were the case it wouldn't be that much of a problem, X1X is plenty capable. Though I would say you are overestimating what the next consoles will have, I'd say it's more in-line with a 1070ti/1080 level of performance and likelier to be 6-core. It's more down to a complete lack of options which sometimes breaks game from being playable (despite how much people praise them for being "optimized"). As for better value, again, absolutely not, and that's because of a big confluences of factors (used hardware, hardware carry-over costs, games pricing, subscriptions costs, back catalog, even piracy if we want to be completely inclusive etc.).

 

[tommybhoy]

We don't know how much it cost to develop - yes it's still a die shrunk 480/580, but how much does the shrinking/respin, validation/testing cost for that process? How much are Global charging for 12nm wafers? What is the yield like etc?

AMD Still need to maximize revenue from whatever GPUs they are selling - dropping a 590 to £150 just because that's what a few people think it should be, isn't going to financially sustainable. Bundling some games that they can negotiate a decent "deal" on, means they can add value to a bundle without taking as much of a hit.

Price drops on RX570/RX580 are indirectly going to help the lower end of the market (e.g. by making AMD's not very good RX560, and the 2GB 1050 cards a very unattractive option).
Whether RX570/RX580 price drops and stock is sustainable (e.g. maybe they are still producing 14nm parts to fulfill contracts at a very good price now), or whether they are simply being subsidised until stock runs out will be the issue.

I understand all, that, however, it didn't cost remotely near the original development cost that it debuted at, but you can take cost to the other extreme and for all we know it could be sold at £120 and still bring profit.

Giving an example, when gibbo can refuse to price say the 2070 WF at retail £459 like everywhere else and choose to sell it at £499 because he wants higher margins, it doesn't equate to not making less than cost@£459, however, not under the illusion that OcUK are all about bumping customers and could very well need that mark up to remain in business, but, when gibbo wants to set something alight and spark attention, he has been known to udercut everyone else to spark the market into life-which was what I've been talking about from the off which others don't understand/refuse to acknowledge what Iv'e been saying in regards to pricing.

 

[Lokken86]

The 580 with the matured drivers, is already starting to put daylight between it and the 1060. The 590 will be further ahead still.

I know. The 580 is usually a good bit ahead of the 1060 with the newer games. Imo who cares about overwatch even my laptop plays it no problem.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Here are some more slides:

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-radeon-rx-590-official-launch-slides-have-been-leaked

The reference cooler has red LEDs. See that adds £1 to the price already!

 

[Gregster]

590 could well be a very nice card for those who need an upgrade, so long as the price is sensible. Decent games also, which is a nice bonus

 

[ANDREW GREEN]

You are literally saying AMD needs to have a 60% faster card at £150 than the equivalent Nvidia one. £200 I could understand,but £150? You on purpose ignored the fact the RX570 is 40% to 45% faster than a GTX1050TI 4GB with double the VRAM,loads of games,etc. On US forums people were making up some weird arguments,and somehow justified the GTX960 instead of an R9 290,ie,it need to be X percent faster to justify buying an AMD card and the R9 290 was not faster enough.

Apparently 40% to 45% isn't enough,or having faster RX580 4GB/8GB cards with game bundles under £200(which you seem to be utterly not aware off),against the GTX1060 3GB.

If £150 to £200 RX570/RX580 4GB/8GB cards can't cause a dent in sales of the GTX1050TI 4GB and GTX1060 3GB,how is an RX590 8GB at £150 going to do anything??

Then trying to imply AMD is doing the same as Nvidia,well recently they seem to be offering more than Nvidia between £100 to £200. This was even the case in late 2016.

At least AMD in a flawed way is bringing much better value between £100 to £200 than Nvidia,who CBA and at least they are doing something under £300. Where is Nvidia - yes we know. They will milk the GTX1060 for months more at the SAME price,and eventually will push out a £300 to £350 GTX2060 which will be GTX1070 level for GTX1070 level pricing.

The GTX2050TI will be RX580 to RX590 level but will be amazing at £200 to £300.

Then they will probably offer a £150 to £200 GTX2050 which is slightly slower than an RX470/RX570 and more expensive and everyone will be going on how amazing that performance uplift is gen to gen but totally forget the pricing! Oh and it will be all the fault of AMD.

Given that the 1050=950 and 1050 is only about 20% faster than a 750 ti, I can't see the 2050 getting close to the 570 but I could be wrong. I also can't see Nvidia going that high on lower range market, which is probably profitable for a small card anyway. I imagine 2050=1050ti and 2050ti maybe a 20% slower than 570.

Also 570 and 580 have only seen their prices dropped recently. For a long time the 3gb 1060 was cheaper than a RX 570 and there's still only £20 between them and they perform similarly although with more VRAM and DX12 you'd guess at the 570 ageing better.

 

[humbug]

Clocked up RX 480 MK2

Come on AMD......

 

[cainer]

i might be tempted, should be a nice jump from a 7950

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Given that the 1050=950 and 1050 is only about 20% faster than a 750 ti, I can't see the 2050 getting close to the 570 but I could be wrong. I also can't see Nvidia going that high on lower range market, which is probably profitable for a small card anyway. I imagine 2050=1050ti and 2050ti maybe a 20% slower than 570.

Also 570 and 580 have only seen their prices dropped recently. For a long time the 3gb 1060 was cheaper than a RX 570 and there's still only £20 between them and they perform similarly although with more VRAM and DX12 you'd guess at the 570 ageing better.

It was only more expensive when mining took off and I remember what happened the last time it happened too.

But the RX470 and RX570 before mining had more deals(look on HUKD). It was more the fact he was saying the RX590 needed to be £150. £150 is GTX1050TI money. I remember getting an RX470 4GB in 2016 for £160ish,and mates getting hold of the RX570 4GB before mining took off for around the same,and the 8GB RX470/RX480 cards being like £190ish. So the 8GB RX470/RX570 cards for under £160 with three AAA games is probably the cheapest they have been on average and the deals have been on for a month.However,there were deals to be had over the summer - a big retailer had the Sapphire Pulse RX580 4GB for just under £190,which my mate got hold off.

I can understand people saying £200 to £250 might be more of a pricing point for the RX590 8GB,but if the GTX1050TI has stayed stubbornly at that price,and the GTX1060 3GB cards at £180+ even with AMD throwing VRAM and games at them on their own cards pricing is not the issue here. Nvidia has made sure there are no real deals to be had on the GTX1050TI and GTX1060 3GB,so ultimately when you have had the RX470/RX480 4GB/8GB there,and certainly the RX480/RX580 4GB there,on and off during 2016,early 2017 and in the last few months,I am not sure what people expect AMD to do?? AMD has so many times offered better value for money at that level,so now it needs to be more?? Offer better than GTX1060 6GB performance for GTX1050TI money.

So that means an RX570 8GB has to be £100 and the RX580 8GB has to be £125,and the Vega64 has to be £250?? That is the kind of pricing you are looking at if you base your range around a £150 RX590.

I can only see that if Nvidia decide to launch a sub £300 GTX2060 with GTX1070 performance and AMD needs to drop pricing.

Regarding naming,Nvidia has pushed up pricing tiers again so might use larger than normal GPUs,so I hadn't realised it might mean more tiering happening so yeah you might be right. I can see the GTX2060 being a £300 to £350 card with GTX1070 performance,unless they call it the GTX2060TI. Then have a GTX2060 which is probably a tad faster than a GTX1060,ie,matching a RX590 for around £230 to £250. Then the GTX2050TI will be a £150 to £200,and will be RX570 level. Then a GTX2050 at £100 to £150 which will be probably a bit faster than a GTX1050TI. All the reviews will compare tier to tier,so the jump looks massive,and I expect it will be the best thing since sliced bread. So all the people saying the RX590 should be £150,will be going wow at the performance jump. AMD will be doomed as usual.

Now,if Nvidia do release GTX1070 level performance under £300,now that might be something then,but it seems only AMD needs to do these kind of these price/performance jumps(since RX590 level performance of £150 would be equivalent price/performance to a Vega64 card at £250).

This is why if we even had a £250 Navi GPU with GTX1080 performance for £250(which I doubt),it probably wouldn't be enough. I expect the excuse is that it will not do RTX and DLSS then.

Ultimately I can see within a few years AMD not bothering - they might try a surge now with Navi,etc but I dunno whether its just wasted money TBH. I think most of the GPU development is probably due to consoles now,and any professional markets AMD might be able to get a niche in.

I could be wrong,but it seems investing in CPU has given them much more dividends quicker. Imagine if AMD launched faster more efficient and faster CPUs before Intel for 6 to 9 months before Intel could?? Imagine how well they would do. They have done that with GPUs and it didn't pan out as well as everyone thought.

 

[FoxEye]

Cat, AMD need to do more than just match nVidia on price and perf.

Ask yourself why Ryzen is now a success. Was it because they just matched what Intel was offering and went no further?

So why do you suggest that AMD should be able to just match nV, and we should all be on AMD's side and grateful that they bother making GPUs at all?

That wouldn't have worked in the CPU space and it won't help AMD in the GPU space either. They've got to be markedly better than their nVidia counterparts or they may as well not bother.

But ALSO they need to better their own 5 year old products, or they again might as well not bother. (on perf/$).

 

[humbug]

AMD need to do a Ryzen in the GPU space... REALLY!

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Cat, AMD need to do more than just match nVidia on price and perf.

Ask yourself why Ryzen is now a success. Was it because they just matched what Intel was offering and went no further?

So why do you suggest that AMD should be able to just match nV, and we should all be on AMD's side and grateful that they bother making GPUs at all?

That wouldn't have worked in the CPU space and it won't help AMD in the GPU space either. They've got to be markedly better than their nVidia counterparts or they may as well not bother.

But ALSO they need to better their own 5 year old products, or they again might as well not bother. (on perf/$).

They are not matching. The RX470/RX570 so many times was GTX1050TI pricing. So 40% at least better performance for the price. Yet some of you say that is not enough.

So many times RX470/RX570 4GB/8GB cards were GTX1060 3GB pricing or better. There were deals for aftermarket RX580 4GB cards for GTX1060 3GB pricing.

AMD has pushed 3 game bundles.

So it needs to be 60% now and with game bundles for the price of a GTX1050TI 4GB.

No wonder AMD is screwed - Nvidia fans here,will quite happily spend £150 on a GTX1050TI which is massively slower than an RX470 or RX570 and won't care.

Everytime they push even one free game,they go on how awesome it is,and the ones here moan when AMD gives away three of them.

So called people who want AMD to do better,seem to think offering 40% to 45% better performance at £160,double the VRAM,3 games,including a £40 one is not enough.

Where are all of you people complaining about the GTX970 and the GTX1060 3GB/6GB pricing and performance?? I don't see a single one of you go into threads talking about the GTX1060 3GB/6GB moaning its barely better than a GTX970 which was £200 to £250.

My attitude is some of you deserve a monopoly,and AMD should just stop making graphics cards,so you can feel happy buying Nvidia ones.

Why don't you question why Nvidia could launch an 8800GT back in the day with a meh HD3870 as competition,but now CBA even making a quicker GTX1060.

They know people like you and your mates here will just blame AMD,whilst the "main company" just does not care.

 

[FoxEye]

ITT we're not talking about the 570, 560, 1030, or whatever card you think compares favourably to nV alternatives. Sorry about that.

I won't bother replying because you're in full AMD defence mode, and it's painful for most of us to watch. Yes, even the neutrals.

 

[Journey]

ITT we're not talking about the 570, 560, 1030, or whatever card you think compares favourably to nV alternatives. Sorry about that.

I won't bother replying because you're in full AMD defence mode, and it's painful for most of us to watch. Yes, even the neutrals.

I understand your frustration but, look at it from another angle.

If you were buying any other product from another other manufacturer and were comparing items in a price range that you want to buy, do you immediately look at their best product(s) and if 'Manufacturer X' is offering a better product than 'Manufacturer Y' do you then ignore all of Manufacturer Y's products including at the budget you are shopping for?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

ITT we're not talking about the 570, 560, 1030, or whatever card you think compares favourably to nV alternatives. Sorry about that.

I won't bother replying because you're in full AMD defence mode, and it's painful for most of us to watch. Yes, even the neutrals.

Oh please clear off - you are hardly neutral. You are the one who started whining at the RX480 pricing being crap in the Polaris thread,then didn't say the same about the GTX1060 3GB/6GB anywhere as much and then bought one yourself.

Then u and two others made up massive performance estimates,then got annoyed when all the leaks said otherwise.

Its painful for you in AMD bash mode. You and TB literally are saying AMD has to sell an RX590 for £150. So a card needs to be 60% faster than a £150 GTX1050TI.

You can deflect as much as you want,since you are in AMD bash mode.

So FoxEye is so annoyed at AMD he thinks a £160 RX570 8GB with 3 games for the last month which is 40% to 45% faster than a GTX1050TI is called AMD defence.

Then when the RX580 4GB/8GB which has ben £190 to £200 in the last few months,is pointed out he calls it AMD defence,since he is terrified,since he knows its faster than the £180 to £230 GTX1060 3GB.

So it seems FoxEye thinks an RX580 8GB for £200,with 3 games is not better value than a GTX1060 3Gb.

So neutral FoxEye,show me the faster and better value £150 to £200 Nvidia cards out there than the current deals.

Then tell me the faster and better value Nvidia deals out there at £200 to £250.

You can't so on purpose try calling out people.

You won't bother replying because you and tommyboy,are just trolling on purpose.

 

[FoxEye]

Oh please clear off - you are hardly neutral. You are the one who started whining at the RX480 pricing being crap in the Polaris thread,then didn't say the same about the GTX1060 3GB/6GB anywhere as much and then bought one yourself.

That's crap, Cat. You're making it up.

I have never owned a 1060. I haven't had an nV card for years.

You're seeing nV shills everywhere. We're all nV shills. Trust no one!

Like I said, it's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed for you.

Then u and two others made up massive performance estimates,then got annoyed when all the leaks said otherwise.

This also never happened, so either you think I'm someone else or you're delusional.

You and TB literally are saying AMD has to sell an RX590 for £150.

This also never happened. Lols.

Embarrassing.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

590 should be a £150 max GPU

We don't know how much it cost to develop - yes it's still a die shrunk 480/580, but how much does the shrinking/respin, validation/testing cost for that process? How much are Global charging for 12nm wafers? What is the yield like etc?

AMD Still need to maximize revenue from whatever GPUs they are selling - dropping a 590 to £150 just because that's what a few people think it should be, isn't going to financially sustainable. Bundling some games that they can negotiate a decent "deal" on, means they can add value to a bundle without taking as much of a hit.

Price drops on RX570/RX580 are indirectly going to help the lower end of the market (e.g. by making AMD's not very good RX560, and the 2GB 1050 cards a very unattractive option).
Whether RX570/RX580 price drops and stock is sustainable (e.g. maybe they are still producing 14nm parts to fulfill contracts at a very good price now), or whether they are simply being subsidised until stock runs out will be the issue.

ITT we're not talking about the 570, 560, 1030, or whatever card you think compares favourably to nV alternatives. Sorry about that.

I won't bother replying because you're in full AMD defence mode, and it's painful for most of us to watch. Yes, even the neutrals.

That's crap, Cat. You're making it up.

I have never owned a 1060. I haven't had an nV card for years.

You're seeing nV shills everywhere. We're all nV shills. Trust no one!

Like I said, it's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed for you.


This also never happened, so either you think I'm someone else or you're delusional.


This also never happened. Lols.

Embarrassing.

I'm embarrassed for you. You cannot answer anything with facts so see AMD Defence Force everywhere - you started the name calling.

TB said an RX590 8GB needed to be £150.

Every AMD graphics thread you **** them off pretending to be neutral. Even TB pretends and then says AMD needs to price the RX590 8GB at £150.

So a card 60% faster than a GTX1050TI?? You came into this thread to support your mate,and yet why does it need to be £150??

Not even a mod understood and he was being polite.

Then when its pointed out AMD sell faster cards than the GTX1050TI and GTX1060 3GB at £150 to £200,with games,etc all you can say is "AMD defence force".

That is all you can do? Yet,none of you questioned once why Nvidia never dropped its card prices at all.

Oh wait,since none of you are moaning at Nvidia pricing the 1050ti and 1060 3gb too high.

You come across as entitled,and since AMD didn't price the RX590 at £150 now you are blaming them. £200 even,but £150?? Why not £15.50 then??

Using your logic and TB logic I want the RTX2070 for £240.

Edit!!

Also another case FoxEye walks into a graphics thread and embarrasingly ignores what the argument was about.

So he moans at me,questioning the whole logic of someone demanding an RX590 be £150 max,and then calls anyone who thinks that is funny "AMD defence force". Then on purpose plays the victim saying it was never said here.

Looking at what Armageus said,he apparently according to FoxEye is in AMD Defence mode.

We are done here.

 

[Akagi]

Will 1x 590 8GB be better than my current 2x 390 8GB in CFX?

e; Ah, seems the answer is no. Quite resoundingly in fact!

 

[BubbySoup]

AMD need to do a Ryzen in the GPU space... REALLY!

The more I think about this the more I believe AMD are quite happy leaving nVidia to the high end GPU space whilst they hoover up the mid-low end segment and concentrate on the CPU space where they can make more $$$

 

[FoxEye]

Ye gads, you're on a roll with the 100% made up "facts".

Every AMD thread you **** them off pretending to be neutral. Even TB pretends and then says AMD needs to price the RX590 8GB at £150.

I've consistently bemoaned the lack of progress from 290 levels of perf at the £200-£250 price point. Why does that translate to a lot of AMD bashing?

Mostly because AMD have, in recent years, kept re-releasing the same performing card at the same price level for 4 gens now. It's taking the mick. Just in a different way than nV releasing obscenely priced Titans and 2000 series cards. But it's still taking the mick.

So a card 60% faster than a GTX1050TI?? You came into this thread to support your mate,and yet why does it need to be £150??

I don't know anyone on this forum enough to call them "my mate". I don't know TB in the slightest. Like, at all. Even a tiny bit.

But now he's my mate whose opinion I must care about and defend. Naturally.

Then when its pointed out AMD sell faster cards than the GTX1050TI and GTX1060 3GB at £150 to £200,with games,etc all you can say is "AMD defence force".

That is all you can do? Yet,none of you questioned once why Nvidia never dropped its card prices at all.

Oh wait,since none of you are moaning at Nvidia pricing the 1050ti and 1060 3gb too high.

You come across as entitled,and since AMD didn't price the RX590 at £150 now you are blaming them.

I never said anything about £150 590s. You can stop saying it.

Next, this thread isn't about the 1050/Ti, or the 560, or below. I'm happy that there are options for people in those price categories, but I don't really concern myself with the real low-end cards because they don't interest me. You won't find me commenting on 560 or 1050 perf/$ because it's not where I focus my attention.

Now, about nV pricing... Find me any post of mine where I was doing anything other than ridiculing the new RTX 2000 series. Find me one, single post where I praised nV or their prices. In fact I've peed of @Gregster quite a bit by criticising the 2080Ti and the like.

Also for the 1000 nV cards... again, find me one post of mine where I did anything other than say I found them to be overpriced. Because I know that's exactly what I said. And if I thought that about the 1000 series, then what do you think I've been saying about the 2000 series? Again, enough to pee off people like Greg...

Sorry Cat, and I know you can't see it, but you're 100% in AMD defence mode. You have these spells where it seems to be life and death to you to defend AMD's reputation, and frankly to the those who aren't red/green blinkered, it's painfully apparent where your loyalty lies.

You're red through and through.