China and war

The amount of hardware in the pacific isn't a win for the West, it's in response to the greater hold China has over their claims. It's geopolitics 101, if you can defend a claim, it's yours, a lesson that was reiterated with Crimea.

The West did nothing, we've already played our hand.
 
Last edited:
Rroff said:
People keep saying stuff like this but assuming it is properly supported and running proper capabilities - unlikely.
Click to expand...

You think a Chinese sub or anti ship missile is going to be perturbed by running proper capabilities?

All in an area we can hardly get our ships or subs to operate properly let alone be supported adequately.
 
neocon said:
Be interesting to see if other countries risk their export business to China.
Click to expand...

If Huawei don't have the Silicon/IP ie. Qualcomm, or even ARM, if the Japanese join in, they they will become impotent to deliver;
the analogy that has been made with IT infrastructure mastery being the successor to the cold war, do we really think china is benign.

If we loose trade with China, I think TrumpBiden will make up for that, has the Scots whisky duty been revoked yet, the consumer has a choice, to purchase the chlorinatedpoor welfare meat.

Benefits of 5G is meant to have to the economy too, post covid, working more from home, the interest of mobile high speed may diminish.
 
The Running Man said:
You think a Chinese sub or anti ship missile is going to be perturbed by running proper capabilities?

All in an area we can hardly get our ships or subs to operate properly let alone be supported adequately.
Click to expand...

I'm more concerned about our own willingness and/or ability to run things with proper capabilities than a Chinese sub or anti-ship missile.

Hypersonics are largely still propaganda - no one currently has a reliable combat operational system that can operate at a level outside of the ability of stuff like the Aster platform - Russia had several incidents trying to do so and China has only achieved it in proof of concept rather than operational systems.
 
Minusorange said:
Surprised nobody posted this yesterday - https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...nearly-all-chinese-claims-in-south-china-sea/
Click to expand...


Video from your link

Haha, that is creepy. Who wants to bet that the guy who messed up hasn't been seen since :eek: :p



I think on our current path war with China probably is inevitable, be it cold or conflict. The US is trying to stop China's growth but it will still be the worlds top economy and superpower at some point this century if not in a few decades so really it comes down to if the US can cope with being no.2. It took two world wars to bankrupt us in to giving up on the British empire and we ceded to a new superpower that is pretty close to our own values and ideology.

China is completely different, they'll make use of Western systems to benefit them but won't give their citizens any of the freedoms and rights we hold dear so how the US can step down from being top dog is an interesting conundrum. I guess they'll still be leaders of the free world but chanting USA No.2 doesn't have the same ring to it.

This is an interesting TED talk about it and what the history of rising powers has taught us.

 
Nobody cares about conventional wars, the insistence on bringing it up just doesn't compute. Any serious conflict with China will be nuclear, end of.
 
StriderX said:
Nobody cares about conventional wars, the insistence on bringing it up just doesn't compute. Any serious conflict with China will be nuclear, end of.
Click to expand...

Indeed and that has to worry Taiwan,would we the west be willing to possibly have nuclear exchanges with China over their freedom... doubtful at best.

It's a game of chicken and Putin has shown us to be toothless if you possess a nuclear arsenal.

However I have no idea on Chinese capabilities in regards to nukes,I imagine they are not on the same level as Russian weapons tech or as numerous.
 
StriderX said:
Nobody cares about conventional wars, the insistence on bringing it up just doesn't compute. Any serious conflict with China will be nuclear, end of.
Click to expand...

Generally it tends to discourage conventional war - it has generated some interesting dynamics between India and China as neither want to escalate to proper conflict and in some cases border scuffles have resorted to flinging rocks at each other. We are heading into somewhat unknown territory at the moment however - personally I'm going to be cautious as to the longer term picture.

alchal said:
Indeed and that has to worry Taiwan,would we the west be willing to possibly have nuclear exchanges with China over their freedom... doubtful at best.

It's a game of chicken and Putin has shown us to be toothless if you possess a nuclear arsenal.

However I have no idea on Chinese capabilities in regards to nukes,I imagine they are not on the same level as Russian weapons tech or as numerous.
Click to expand...

Unlike Russia Chinese nuclear weapons both due to limited numbers and the platforms involved are vulnerable to a first strike and can't trivially overwhelm ABMs like Russia can do. They are a much bigger threat to regional powers like India. None the less however the consequences are so severe no one is going to take chances.
 
Last edited:
Doobedoo said:
Not sure why people are bothered about being spied on, every country spies on the other and have done for a long time the U.S is by far the worse with all their alphabet agencies.

I remember when people were saying the government is spying on you 20 or more years ago, they were told they were crazy conspiracy theorists... Yet the Government was spying on you.

Just face it the west is being out wested by the east.
Click to expand...

Well if our government and the US government are doing it, then I guess there's absolutely no potential harm or risk involved in allowing an adversarial power to do the same thing :rolleyes:

Here's a key difference:

Our government and the US government aren't going to be using location data of their own citizens to plan missile strikes against their own citizens. However, if China knows where we are, and when, they literally could do this. Right now, how many mobile phones are connected to masts in the King's Cross area vs Picadilly Circus? Right, Picadilly it is; the same missle will inflict 20% more casualties.

This is the danger of allowing a potential enemy access to this sort of data.

But, but but... Facebook! Their data is different. It's more detailed, but less comprehensive. There are 50 people in McDonald's. 10 of them check in, state who they were with, and what they ate. The other 40 (unless checked in by a friend) weren't there.
 
McPhee said:
This is the danger of allowing a potential enemy access to this sort of data.
Click to expand...

Are you talking about conventional or nuclear weapons here, if it's conventional I would imagine any attack against a civilian target by China on the West would pretty much lead to a instant escalation to nuclear weapons, once it goes nuclear then the decimation caused by the blast (EMP etc) would pretty much make any "targeting" meaningless other than "large population centers" which are well known and don't require "realtime" data.
 
Last edited:
HEADRAT said:
Are you talking about conventional or nuclear weapons here, if it's conventional I would imagine any attack against a civilian target by China on the West would pretty much lead to a instant escalation to nuclear weapons, once it goes nuclear then the decimation caused by the blast (EMP etc) would pretty much make any "targeting" meaningless.
Click to expand...

What makes you so sure the response would be nuclear?

We clearly aren't responding with Nukes without US support, as China could wipe us off the map. And if the US fires nuclear weapons at China, then China will fire back. The US would win, but at the cost of potentially millions of American lives. They simply aren't going to take that risk.

Even if China fired an ICBM on Los Angeles, I would question whether the US would actually fire a Nuke in retaliation. Threaten to, certainly. But unless they're absolutely confident about their ability to intercept Chinese nuclear missiles, and are confident that Russia will stay out of it, it seems unlikely that they would take the risk.

A ground war would seem far more likely.
 
Last edited:
McPhee said:
A ground war would seem far more likely.
Click to expand...

A ground war in China, no chance, there is just no way the West could get enough boots on the ground to even start thinking about that.

If China thinks it can get away with firing an ICBM into USA/UK etc. then the deterrent value is gone, your enemy has to think thank you will at least retaliate in kind or just launch everything they have.

If it goes nuclear then we've all lost, that's the whole deterrent value that we've bet the farm on for the last 60+ years.
 
Last edited:
The Americans couldn't even win a ground war in Vietnam and they were bare foot, invading China would be suicide.

Have they ever fought a enemy that's equivalent in size and technology?

The biggest threat to America is internal conflict.

Having said that, who knows what biological weapons both sides have. Maybe covid was just a test to see how well a spreading vehicle might work, and they could add a more deadly payload if they wanted to wage war.
 
Last edited:
neocon said:
The Americans couldn't even win a ground war in Vietnam and they were bare foot, invading China would be suicide.

Have they ever fought a enemy that's equivalent in size and technology?
Click to expand...

The Germans would be the only one really and even then it took the efforts of the British, Russia and most of Europe, mainly Russia to win the war. George Carlin did a great bit on that and basically said they fought Germany because they were trying to muscle in on their action, which was to dominate the World.

Naomi Chomsky said in one of the videos that I posted that the Americans actually thought the Germans would win, and that they were planning to divide the World up between themselves and Germany, with the U.S. controlling much of the West and Germany controlling much of the East. Pesky Russians put an end to that ironically.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom