AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[Satchfanuk]

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLadies and gentlemen, my names Paul......................................

That intro was way too short for Paul, it needs to be at least 2x ( that's 2 ex btw, not 2 times ) longer, followed by the rest of the sentence rushed through in a single breath

 

[Satchfanuk]

I'll be very surprised if it is less than a 72 CU part (or equivalent if they've made any significant layout changes to the architecture vs RDNA1) - the performance uplift with any kind of reasonable estimates just doesn't support it.

The way he mentions 80-90% and waffles about his sources and whether they are the same or not sounds like he is BSing through his teeth though.

I'm convinced his 'source' is the tweet Scott Herkelman put out about not stating which card was used for those performance numbers

 

[gpuerrilla]

"Sources"... i.e. his imagination.

It was a teaser with little real detail - we know nothing of specs, price or how it performs in a wider range of games or settings/resolution, etc. here is plenty for them to still show.

two weeks to go now Rroff till you point and sneer get to see what they really have!

 

[Satchfanuk]

By the way, what's all this about Nvidia pulling a 7nm refresh of the 30 series already?

AMD must really be getting under Jensen's leather jacket

They might just about fulfil all the 3080/90 preorders before dropping these and destroying what's left of their customer trust

 

[Satchfanuk]

What the hell is going on in this forum with all the 30 series threads? Has every single Nvidia fan opened a thread about waiting for a card, or receiving a card or excited about pre-ordering a card or how waiting for a card is destroying their enjoyment of gaming

Same thing happened when the 20 series launched. Maybe we all need to start doing the same and open up a thread for every little thought we have relating to the wait for Big Navi, join the thread spamming fun with the green team

I think I have titles for at least 50 threads ready to go

 

[LePhuronn]

It was a teaser with little real detail - we know nothing of specs, price or how it performs in a wider range of games or settings/resolution, etc. here is plenty for them to still show.

Exactly, but you're not going to show the very top card because there is no buildup, no anticipation and the dedicated event becomes a damp squib, deflating the entire experience and casting a negative feeling on the whole thing.

And as has been repeatedly pointed out, AMD are playing catchup to Nvidia. It's not sandbagging when you're behind, is it. It's trying to build anticipation, a sense of "oh hang a minute, could they actually do this?" will they won't they anticipation.

 

[Zeeflyboy]

There isn't really one guiding logic here - from a marketing perspective sandbagging is extremely risky and more likely to result in consumers committing to the competition if you underplay your hand.

It was a teaser with little real detail - we know nothing of specs, price or how it performs in a wider range of games or settings/resolution, etc. here is plenty for them to still show.

Agreed, a definite risk but arguably more of an issue if the competitor's product is actually available to buy.

I have no idea what they showed us, but it would in my opinion be out of character for them to go straight for the halo stuff without any foreplay to get us warmed up... in all the more recent product announcement presentations I believe I recall them saving the juiciest stuff for the after the reveal of the more mainstream parts (3950X, 5950X, 5700XT Anniversary edition... All I believe were shown after having talked about the other products first).

So for them to go straight for the money shot in a throw away tease at the end of a CPU demonstration would I think be unlikely, but I have no evidence of that besides my own conjecture.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Exactly, but you're not going to show the very top card because there is no buildup, no anticipation and the dedicated event becomes a damp squib, deflating the entire experience and casting a negative feeling on the whole thing.

And as has been repeatedly pointed out, AMD are playing catchup to Nvidia. It's not sandbagging when you're behind, is it. It's trying to build anticipation, a sense of "oh hang a minute, could they actually do this?" will they won't they anticipation.

nvidia has tried to spoil the party and failed. They rushed the launch 'cos either they got spooked (spies told them the navi performance) or they just fudged up royally on it. Then they pushed back the 3070 launch as we cant work out why just yet but likely they dont want to be embarrassed with prices/stock disclosure to get smashed by AMD with whats available after.

To me only the fanboyest of fanboys will stick up for nvidia this launch as it has been a disaster. If you had any sense being in a long long queue I would just cancel and forget, get a console, or buy navi to kick Jensen in his padded pants where it hurts.

 

[Rroff]

Agreed, a definite risk but arguably more of an issue if the competitor's product is actually available to buy.

I have no idea what they showed us, but it would in my opinion be out of character for them to go straight for the halo stuff without any foreplay to get us warmed up... in all the more recent product announcement presentations I believe they saved the juiciest stuff for the after the reveal of the more mainstream parts (3950X, 5950X, 5700XT Anniversary edition... All I believe were showed after having teased the other products first).

So for them to go straight for the money shot in a throw away tease at the end of a CPU demonstration would I think be unlikely, but I have no evidence of that besides my own conjecture.

That is building up within the same presentation though - a very different proposition. If you are gonna tease and keep people hanging it is another matter again.

 

[Zeeflyboy]

@Rroff But also not without precedent - recall for example Lisa Su holding up the 3800X at CES with the obvious space for a second CCD there but they remained completely mum on the possibility of more than 8 cores (other than some vague comments not unlike the "we didn't state which GPU we showed" here). That was also a tease and not a product announcement presentation but amounts to the same thing as we are discussing here - holding back on the big stuff.

As I say just my own personal feeling given their prior form... could be, probably will be, wrong.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

If this higher tier card beats ampere would it be considered a buildup or a wind-up LOL.

 

[Troezar]

I think Nvidia are being overestimated and AMD underestimated in all of this. Despite being ahead it strikes me that Nvidia are struggling to maintain their desktop performance. Pushing higher power and dropping prices, small gap to the 3090, no Titan. Maybe bringing out higher VRAM versions very quickly.

Whereas AMD are increasing performance substantially over their last gen. Makes you wonder if the red and green line on the graph will cross at some point, as happened with the blue line It all seems very first generation Ryzen-like to me.

 

[Martini1991]

It's strange.

I bet the people currently hyping up Navi to beating the 3080 will quickly change their tune and praise it even if it's ~5 behind a 3080 after the fact (Which price depending, is still a very good GPU, not sure I'd find it an exciting event though).
But not long to find out I guess.

 

[Troezar]

It's strange.

I bet the people currently hyping up Navi to beating the 3080 will quickly change their tune and praise it even if it's ~5 behind a 3080 after the fact (Which price depending, is still a very good GPU, not sure I'd find it an exciting event though).
But not long to find out I guess.

As you say there are a variety of metrics to measure "better" by. To me a faster card than before at the right price would be better. To others it would have to be faster than Nvidia. Some would want it to be cheaper too, and the real hardcore would need it to make breakfast before they considered it "better"

That's why there will never be a consensus on here, everyone is working to different standards!

 

[Martini1991]

As you say there are a variety of metrics to measure "better" by. To me a faster card than before at the right price would be better. To others it would have to be faster than Nvidia. Some would want it to be cheaper too, and the real hardcore would need it to make breakfast before they considered it "better"

That's why there will never be a consensus on here, everyone is working to different standards!

But in terms of performance, there can only be one that's better, they're factual entities. And the people hyping it up now will continue to hype it up if it falls short of their own hype.

That in itself doesn't make it a bad GPU (As there are no bad GPU's, just bad pricing), but it's just the mental gymnastics.

 

[Calin Banc]

I think Nvidia are being overestimated and AMD underestimated in all of this. Despite being ahead it strikes me that Nvidia are struggling to maintain their desktop performance. Pushing higher power and dropping prices, small gap to the 3090, no Titan. Maybe bringing out higher VRAM versions very quickly.

Whereas AMD are increasing performance substantially over their last gen. Makes you wonder if the red and green line on the graph will cross at some point, as happened with the blue line It all seems very first generation Ryzen-like to me.

How did they dropped prices? rtx3080 is about the same as rtx2080, while 3090 went up compared to 2080ti.
performance is still there if you compare 3080 vs. 2080, is about 66% performance uplift (not bad, not awesome) and around 54% for 2080ti vs 3090.

Sure, power is not great, but that's Samsung for you. On TSMC probably they would have been even faster.

Sure they've dropped the ball on availability and some driver related issues here and there, but you can't say AMD is spotless on that one

 

[Troezar]

But in terms of performance, there can only be one that's better, they're factual entities. And the people hyping it up now will continue to hype it up if it falls short of their own hype.

That in itself doesn't make it a bad GPU (As there are no bad GPU's, just bad pricing), but it's just the mental gymnastics.

You are coming from the angle of "I want the best". That's a very small number of sales. AMD as a company could still be a winner even if they never produced the fastest card. That's what I'm saying, you've got a specific metric for your idea of the best. Which is perfectly valid, however a buyer with £300 to spend that can get an AMD card 40% faster than an Nvidia card of the range price would consider that the best. The fact that Nvidia might have the world's fastest GPU for £1,000 won't matter to them.

So yes in terms of the highest frame rates no matter the cost you are right but most other won't be buying using that criteria. Now if AMD aren't as fast but cost the same that would be a failure.

I can't see anyone trying to claim an AMD card was faster if it wasn't, better value maybe, if cheaper. That would be a valid argument. Equally I see similar mental gymnastics where something is 1 FPS faster but twice the price with the claim "but it's faster" (exaggerated to illustrate the point).

It depends if you/we are here to discuss the merits of the GPUs or to win. I'm not seeing anything to win...

 

[gpuerrilla]

It's strange.

I bet the people currently hyping up Navi to beating the 3080 will quickly change their tune and praise it even if it's ~5 behind a 3080 after the fact (Which price depending, is still a very good GPU, not sure I'd find it an exciting event though).
But not long to find out I guess.

I think most of us with experience and tempered thoughts know this. It may not be exciting to you but considering the last release (one of which you purchased - 5700XT) was a bit meh, I would rather take the ~5 behind a 3080 than the gap we seen between the rdna1 and 2080Ti. All I am interested in at this point is the price!

I am also welcoming the extras such as the cards are able to use the new AV1 decoder for example.

 

[Troezar]

How did they dropped prices? rtx3080 is about the same as rtx2080, while 3090 went up compared to 2080ti.
performance is still there if you compare 3080 vs. 2080, is about 66% performance uplift (not bad, not awesome) and around 54% for 2080ti vs 3090.

Sure, power is not great, but that's Samsung for you. On TSMC probably they would have been even faster.

Sure they've dropped the ball on availability and some driver related issues here and there, but you can't say AMD is spotless on that one

Don't pull that one By any measure the 20 series was higher priced, by a lot. Don't you think if they could have charged the same they would have? This time Nvidia have some competition. Just be glad of that and improved pricing. We're all winners then.

AMD are far from perfect, the issue is Nvidia can do no wrong even when they get it very, very wrong. Balanced praise or criticism is much better.

 

[gpuerrilla]

This sounds like an nvidia disciple. He's basically said "awww well its ok isnt it?". Completely blinded I would say.

Anyway, decoder info.