AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

LoadsaMoney · 18 Oct 2020 at 18:58

No RT in Cyberpunk for AMD on launch, only Nvidia.

Ray tracing will only be available on PCs with GeForce graphics cards or via GeForce NOW at launch, though we expect that it'll be eventually compatible with AMD's new Navi graphics cards as well as being featured on PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X once the proper enhancement updates drop for the next-gen consoles in 2021.

https://wccftech.com/cdpr-talks-gi-...-and-using-jali-to-automate-facial-animation/

muon · 18 Oct 2020 at 18:59

LoadsaMoney said:
No RT in Cyberpunk for AMD on launch, only Nvidia.

https://wccftech.com/cdpr-talks-gi-...-and-using-jali-to-automate-facial-animation/

Well does anyone even know what RT in Navi looks like? Do we have drivers or devkits yet?

Mr Oblong · 18 Oct 2020 at 19:14

muon said:
Well does anyone even know what RT in Navi looks like? Do we have drivers or devkits yet?

There are console demos, Digital Foundry have given this a fair bit of coverage (particularly the PS5 E3 show).

LoadsaMoney said:
No RT in Cyberpunk for AMD on launch, only Nvidia.

https://wccftech.com/cdpr-talks-gi-...-and-using-jali-to-automate-facial-animation/

Bit disappointing, but makes sense- it's coming in real hot around (probably before) the new AMD cards are released.

KiNgPiN83 · 18 Oct 2020 at 19:21

OMGsideboob said:
I wonder how much the tickets will cost.

They will probably start off at a reasonable price but then go up as they become more limited due to exchange rates or something...

LoadsaMoney · 18 Oct 2020 at 19:22

Mr Oblong said:
Bit disappointing, but makes sense- it's coming in real hot around (probably before) the new AMD cards are released.

Well colour me :confused:

, as RT isn't Nvidia, its DXR, which is a part of Microsofts DirectX, so either their cards wont be out when Cyberpunk launches, which is odd, as they said they'd be out before the new consoles, and the new Xbox launches on the 10th November (i don't know when the new PS launches), while Cyberpunk launches on the 19th, so either they wont be out before the new consoles afterall, or they're doing their own proprietary RT, which would be even odder, seen as the new Xbox is Microsoft, so would be using their DXR too (id have thought), like the PC.

Ive got no clue how the new PS is doing RT, apart from hearing about some sort of hybrid.

Nablaoperator · 18 Oct 2020 at 20:04

LoadsaMoney said:
Well colour me , as RT isn't Nvidia, its DXR, which is a part of Microsofts DirectX, so either their cards wont be out when Cyberpunk launches, which is odd, as they said they'd be out before the new consoles, and the new Xbox launches on the 10th November (i don't know when the new PS launches), while Cyberpunk launches on the 19th, so either they wont be out before the new consoles afterall, or they're doing their own proprietary RT, which would be even odder, seen as the new Xbox is Microsoft, so would be using their DXR too (id have thought), like the PC.

Ive got no clue how the new PS is doing RT, apart from hearing about some sort of hybrid.

Probably done at AMD's request.. I believe AMD would like it QCd on big Navi.. there should be a different code parameterization for Navi RT so that it doesn't come across as shoddy to RTX given its performance disadvantage at RT

But modders should be able to unlock it at launch

Shaz12 · 18 Oct 2020 at 20:12

If only AMD has enough stock at launch, I would go with them based on pure principle given this disaster of a launch by Nvidia.

gpuerrilla · 18 Oct 2020 at 20:13

I would think this was already decided and locked in because CP has been delayed already so AMD's release has no bearing on it.

Nablaoperator · 18 Oct 2020 at 20:17

DXR is DXR (i don't think Nvidia wants to **** MS by going proprietary).. so execution will have to be explicitly stopped by CP on Navi.. I think it's just a matter of optimised code path on Navi at AMD's request

Edit: on second thoughts, AMD may take a while to support DXR in drivers, another possibility

Grim5 · 18 Oct 2020 at 20:53

LoadsaMoney said:
No RT in Cyberpunk for AMD on launch, only Nvidia.

https://wccftech.com/cdpr-talks-gi-...-and-using-jali-to-automate-facial-animation/

That makes sense, AMD"s cards are not out yet and they have no time to test how it works for launch.

AMD's cards should be able to inject straight into the DXR pipeline the same way Nvidia cards do, so in theory it should be pretty simple to make it work as a superficial level.

main complication I can forsee is that if there is a reasonable performance difference between RDNA 2 and Ampere, then perhaps they will adjust the game and that takes time (i.e if RDNA 2 is much slower, then the RT effects need to be toned down but if RDNA 2 is much faster, then they have capacity to ramp up the RT effects). Either way, it sounds like CDPR want to take their time to get the most out of the hardware.

They will also be resource limited, they will be putting most post launch devs into working on the PS5/Series X upgrades with smaller resources for PC's Ray Tracing (next gen consoles will be selling millions of units over the next 2 months so it makes sense to prioritize the consoles before the PC version).

Essentially this means that on PC there won't be any Ray Tracing on RDNA 2 cards in Cyberpunk until sometime next year but I have no doubt it will be good when it does come out.

Rroff · 18 Oct 2020 at 21:15

If RT is implemented properly it shouldn't matter if it is nVidia or AMD hardware underneath - AMD still hadn't supplied the entry points needed for Vulkan or driver level support for DXR last I checked - in theory DXR should be simple to enable after the fact if your implementation can take standard input and spit out the expected result but Vulkan currently only has nVidia functions for it so games would need patching or a translation layer/wrapper. Some games might specifically check against vendor rather than GPU caps list though

and a simple if statement prevent RT running on just any GPU.

Grim5 · 18 Oct 2020 at 21:24

Rroff said:
If RT is implemented properly it shouldn't matter if it is nVidia or AMD hardware underneath - AMD still hadn't supplied the entry points needed for Vulkan or driver level support for DXR last I checked - in theory DXR should be simple to enable after the fact if your implementation can take standard input and spit out the expected result but Vulkan currently only has nVidia functions for it so games would need patching or a translation layer/wrapper. Some games might specifically check against vendor rather than GPU caps list though and a simple if statement prevent RT running on just any GPU.

if AMD haven't actually released a DXR capable driver then its a moot point, devs can't do anything until AMD comes to the party

humbug · 18 Oct 2020 at 21:34

muon said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1317860832697516032

So much BS in that Nvidia slide, my 2070S puts out at least as much heat into my room and it runs at 70c with a cooler 3 times the size of my 5700XT, 140 TDP vs 180 TDP my arse...

4K8KW10 · 18 Oct 2020 at 21:39

Grim5 said:
if AMD haven't actually released a DXR capable driver then its a moot point, devs can't do anything until AMD comes to the party

The question is why is AMD so late to the party?

Mr Oblong · 18 Oct 2020 at 21:45

4K8KW10 said:
The question is why is AMD so late to the party?

I think they were caught off guard by Nvidia's investment in RT maybe, and architectures take years to develop.

gpuerrilla · 18 Oct 2020 at 21:45

humbug said:
So much BS in that Nvidia slide, my 2070S puts out at least as much heat into my room and it runs at 70c with a cooler 3 times the size of my 5700XT, 140 TDP vs 180 TDP my arse...

You would only know this if you owned an AMD card. Otherwise you get this ******** from nvidia owners referencing internet theory.

Mr Oblong said:
I think they were caught off guard by Nvidia's investment in RT maybe, and architectures take years to develop.

I call that baloney. I think they knew if they brought something out it would be laughed at and even disappoint their own fans, this is called delaying that move till its usable. They would also be working with Sony and M$ at this stage knowing they will get something out for the new gen consoles - which they now have, hence its ready.

4K8KW10 · 18 Oct 2020 at 21:54

Mr Oblong said:
I think they were caught off guard by Nvidia's investment in RT maybe, and architectures take years to develop.

Th0nt said:
You would only know this if you owned an AMD card. Otherwise you get this ******** from nvidia owners referencing internet theory.

I call that baloney. I think they knew if they brought something out it would be laughed at and even disappoint their own fans, this is called delaying that move till its usable. They would also be working with Sony and M$ at this stage knowing they will get something out for the new gen consoles - which they now have, hence its ready.

This is the official statement.
The thing is that AMD is not ready with full DX12 Ultimate support either, nor it innovated with any other graphics tehcnology in the recent years.

So, how come ray-tracing was invented by Nvidia, while AMD doesn't even follow Microsoft DX schedule?

Assuming that DXR is only an extension to DX brought there by Nvidia's lobbying.

But DX is not only ray-tracing, there are many other areas where AMD could have brought anything new.

Remember how they pushed DX 10.1 back in the day, while Nvidia didn't want to support it?

Mr Oblong · 18 Oct 2020 at 21:58

4K8KW10 said:
This is the official statement.
The thing is that AMD is not ready with full DX12 Ultimate support either, nor it innovated with any other graphics tehcnology in the recent years.

So, how come ray-tracing was invented by Nvidia, while AMD doesn't even follow Microsoft DX schedule?

Assuming that DXR is only an extension to DX brought there by Nvidia's lobbying.

But DX is not only ray-tracing, there are many other areas where AMD could have brought anything new.

Remember how they pushed DX 10.1 back in the day, while Nvidia didn't want to support it?

Because Nvidia are a huge, rich company, and AMD has been fighting for survival and prioritised CPU investment?

Zeeflyboy · 18 Oct 2020 at 21:59

4K8KW10 said:
So, how come ray-tracing was invented by Nvidia, while AMD doesn't even follow Microsoft DX schedule?

Ray tracing most certainly was *not* invented by Nvidia.

muon · 18 Oct 2020 at 22:01

Zeeflyboy said:
Ray tracing most certainly was *not* invented by Nvidia.

That wasn't really his point now was it.

It is a fair critique to say AMD have not really innovated in the space since DX10.1.

edit:

Freesync I'd perhaps give AMD credit for.