Can I legally put a metal garage here in my back garden - grumpy neighbour....

[Gredawarha]

Is the double garage original when the house was built or is it an addition?

I don't think you can build multiples of 30m2 buildings without planning permission so you have to add up the floor space of the garage, subtract that from 30m2 and then build with whats left.

The 30m2 is the internal area not external so measure the garage internal area.

This is incorrect in respect of planning. There is no specific limit on the area of an outbuilding or outbuildings. They must remain incidental and you cannot fill your curtilage with buildings. See limitation E.1 (b)

(b)the total area of ground covered by buildings, enclosures and containers within the curtilage (other than the original dwellinghouse) would exceed 50% of the total area of the curtilage (excluding the ground area of the original dwellinghouse);​

 

[Gredawarha]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1ft-Oran...P8ZCVjS0N7gj0Ncpy9XKhIH57PmiMILQaAhfGEALw_wcB

Them.

I thought it was 2m max. Only what someone has said to me. Not seen it on any gov site or anything

edit: yeah it's 2m or 6"6. They look like 3 foot, with a foot base.

Maximum height of a domestic fence is 2 metres or 1 metre if adjacent to a highway used by vehicles.

 

[Gredawarha]

Are you sure that is correct!
The regs seem to stipulate that maximum height is 2m at the edges but it can apex to a maximum of 2.5m in centre of within 1m of the boundary.

Not that it makes much difference anyway as just stick with a flat 2m roof but plan was to be around 1.8-2.0m and side with an apex roof that reaches close to 2.5m in centre.

The neighbour was trying to claim I can’t build anything within 5m but that rules obviously does not apply to his two sheds lol.

I posted up the link from Moorlands council but they do not mention height but I have emailed them with what I plan to do and shall call them to just confirm.

Neither of you are correct. The GPDO allows you to erect an outbuilding up to 2.5 metres if within 2 metres of the boundary.

 

[Gredawarha]

It's 2.5m at 1m. You can go up to 4m so long as your eaves are at 3m or below depending on the location. Obviously 2m if right up against the boundary.

So you don't have to limit to 2.5m in the centre. You can go up to 4m without planning permission so long as you follow all the rules.

This is not correct. Maximum eaves height is 2.5m. See limitation E.1 (f)

(f)the height of the eaves of the building would exceed 2.5 metres;​

 

[Gredawarha]

The rules are pretty clear. The diagram on p43 posted by alexakasloth is clear too:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...e/830643/190910_Tech_Guide_for_publishing.pdf

So I'm not sure what you could have posted which overrides everything said in all of the previous posts?

PD rights are granted under GDPO and can only be overridden by local councils in certain circumstances. OP would have to check if his PD rights have been revoked. Other than that, the rules are clear and there is no 1m rule further restricting the height of the structure than what has already been said. Why don't you post the picture for all to see if you think otherwise?

This. A LPA can remove permission granted by the GPDO in certain circumstances but can't start making up their own version. The limitations are set out in the legislation passed by parliament, only parliament can change them not a LPA.

 

[Gredawarha]

Well done for being calm and looking at it from his perspective. The whole Englishman's house is his castle thing can turn nice people into ogres.

He got 54 years out of that shed, sounds like he's one of those old people that view change as a threat and resist it.

Agreed, well done for dealing with this in a calm and courteous manner.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

This is not correct. Maximum eaves height is 2.5m. See limitation E.1 (f)

(f)the height of the eaves of the building would exceed 2.5 metres;​

I'm in Scotland is it possible the laws here are different?

 

[Gredawarha]

I'm in Scotland is it possible the laws here are different?

Yes, the The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (as amended) as the title suggests is England and Wales, I rather arrogantly assumed we were talking about England not Scotland. Scotland does have its own legislation and working the South of England means I have never read the Scottish legislation.

@Gibbo if you are in Scotland please ignore me as my comments refer to England and Wales not Scotland or NI for that matter.

 

[Gibbo]

Yes, the The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (as amended) as the title suggests is England and Wales, I rather arrogantly assumed we were talking about England not Scotland. Scotland does have its own legislation and working the South of England means I have never read the Scottish legislation.

@Gibbo if you are in Scotland please ignore me as my comments refer to England and Wales not Scotland or NI for that matter.

Dropped you a PM if that is Ok please buddy.

 

[stockhausen]

I have to say that this dispute says something very depressing about both the vagaries of planning regulations and the concept of loving thy neighbor as thyself.
I suggest that Gibbo has handled it with remarkable restraint and I hope that it gets resolved without lasting rancour.

 

[Gredawarha]

Dropped you a PM if that is Ok please buddy.

No problem, just replied

 

[Gibbo]

I have found this passage in my deeds:

"The purchasers hereby jointly and severally covenant with vendor as follows:-
To maintain in good order the stock-proof fence fronting the land and premises hereby conveyed and recently erected by the vendor not to permit or suffer to be done on the property hereby conveyed or use the buildings situate on the land hereby conveyed or any part thereof for act matter or thing which may be or become a nuisance annoyance or damage to the vendor sucessors in title or assigns owner or owners for the time being of adjoining lands and property retained by the vendor and shall not use any of the existing buildings or erect any building on the land hereby conveyed to be used as a slaughterhouse or to use any of the land hereby conveyed as a caravan site"

"It is hereby agreed and declared that the purchasers and their successors in title shall not by virtue of this conveyance acquire any right of light or air which would prejudice the free use and enjoyment of any adjoining or neighbouring land of the vendor for building or any other purposes and that any enjoyment of light or air by the purchasers or their successors in title from or over any adjoining or neighbouring land of the vendor shall be deemed to be by the consent of the vendor."


What does the above mean or has it got nothing to do with what I am planning?

A lot of this legal jargon makes not much sense to me but I am reading it that myself and my neighbours can build what they wish on their land for their own enjoyments on the basis its not a slaughterhouse or used as a caravan site, is that correct, so my garage does not breach the above?

 

[Psycho Sonny]

It's talking about right to light meaning you cannot block out the sun.

I doubt your garage will do this if your planning it to be 2m at the sides as you already have a large fence in situ and previously had a similarly sized shed in place.

Albeit sheds aren't permanent structures and brick buildings have different rules governing them based on size, etc.

You may get away with a wooden garage if a brick version is deemed unsuitable. As it's not deemed a permanent structure. Albeit it could be made stronger and better than a brick equivalent.

 

[Gibbo]

It's talking about right to light meaning you cannot block out the sun.

I doubt your garage will do this if your planning it to be 2m at the sides as you already have a large fence in situ and previously had a similarly sized shed in place.

Albeit sheds aren't permanent structures and brick buildings have different rules governing them based on size, etc.

You may get away with a wooden garage if a brick version is deemed unsuitable. As it's not deemed a permanent structure. Albeit it could be made stronger and better than a brick equivalent.

Thank you, I think wood is out the question due to proximity to the border/fence, though we did have a shed made from wood their previous and as can be seen the neighbour has two sheds in place.

 

[watercooledman]

has the neighbour complained about car noise yet ? sounds like he's going to be a right pain in the arse.

 

[Gibbo]

has the neighbour complained about car noise yet ? sounds like he's going to be a right pain in the arse.

Nope, can't see how he could anyway, we have active farms around us with tractors going up and down the road, plus old land rovers and when they go pass well you do hear it, plus we have cows mooing and owls making noise at night. I doubt a noise complaint would get anywhere, none of my cars are overly loud and the loudest is the Ferrari which is totally standard and I only start it up in awake hours so to speak.

He has been quite pleasant before but only spoken before, when I do the fences I shall judge his character more, maybe he is just really worried about water and upset how his shed rotted and took it out on me even though I have now removed what was causing said issue.

Plus our neighbour at 62 is a builder and often wacking or smashing something, so I think noise is something the local residents don't notice or complain about.

 

[Gredawarha]

I have found this passage in my deeds:

"The purchasers hereby jointly and severally covenant with vendor as follows:-
To maintain in good order the stock-proof fence fronting the land and premises hereby conveyed and recently erected by the vendor not to permit or suffer to be done on the property hereby conveyed or use the buildings situate on the land hereby conveyed or any part thereof for act matter or thing which may be or become a nuisance annoyance or damage to the vendor sucessors in title or assigns owner or owners for the time being of adjoining lands and property retained by the vendor and shall not use any of the existing buildings or erect any building on the land hereby conveyed to be used as a slaughterhouse or to use any of the land hereby conveyed as a caravan site"

"It is hereby agreed and declared that the purchasers and their successors in title shall not by virtue of this conveyance acquire any right of light or air which would prejudice the free use and enjoyment of any adjoining or neighbouring land of the vendor for building or any other purposes and that any enjoyment of light or air by the purchasers or their successors in title from or over any adjoining or neighbouring land of the vendor shall be deemed to be by the consent of the vendor."


What does the above mean or has it got nothing to do with what I am planning?

A lot of this legal jargon makes not much sense to me but I am reading it that myself and my neighbours can build what they wish on their land for their own enjoyments on the basis its not a slaughterhouse or used as a caravan site, is that correct, so my garage does not breach the above?

The covenants on the land have no relevance in relation to the lawful right to erect buildings under The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 however you are correct that you cannot use a building as a slaughterhouse or caravan site nor should you do anything that prejudices the free use and enjoyment of neighbouring land. Any party who considered that you breached the covenant would have to seek legal recourse against you. This is a private matter and not planning so you should seek legal advice if your neighbour pursued this. The reality is that I would be incredibly surprised if someone had the ways and means to pursue this.

 

[Gibbo]

The covenants on the land have no relevance in relation to the lawful right to erect buildings under The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 however you are correct that you cannot use a building as a slaughterhouse or caravan site nor should you do anything that prejudices the free use and enjoyment of neighbouring land. Any party who considered that you breached the covenant would have to seek legal recourse against you. This is a private matter and not planning so you should seek legal advice if your neighbour pursued this. The reality is that I would be incredibly surprised if someone had the ways and means to pursue this.

So having seen the pictures of my garden and my plans do you in your professional opinion believe I am say to go ahead with what I plan and of course I am not holding you to this just want to know your feelings considering it is your profession.

 

[Gredawarha]

It's talking about right to light meaning you cannot block out the sun.

I doubt your garage will do this if your planning it to be 2m at the sides as you already have a large fence in situ and previously had a similarly sized shed in place.

Albeit sheds aren't permanent structures and brick buildings have different rules governing them based on size, etc.

You may get away with a wooden garage if a brick version is deemed unsuitable. As it's not deemed a permanent structure. Albeit it could be made stronger and better than a brick equivalent.

Notwithstanding that Scotland may be different, you cannot simply state that a shed is not a permanent structure requiring planning permission. I am not intending to go into the details as it would require its own thread but you can Google it, Section 55 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 defines development and case law provides three tests, size, permanence and attachment to the ground.

 

[Gredawarha]

So having seen the pictures of my garden and my plans do you in your professional opinion believe I am say to go ahead with what I plan and of course I am not holding you to this just want to know your feelings considering it is your profession.

Hi Gibbo

I have sent you a private reply to your private message to me.