Kids these days, eh?

[potatolord]

I couldn't recollect country lines gangs or drug dealers at school or kids carrying weapons at school etc when I was growing up.

Sure there were a few scuffles and a few who liked to steal but nowadays it's about gangland culture and respect, whatever that means to these kids.

People were transporting drugs around the place in the 80s- your local smackhead wasn't growing his own. It was a business back then and here were some pretty heavy people involved in it.

As to weapons, I didn't see them routinely carried in the 80s when I was a teen, but they did get used on occasion. The football lads I knew could tell you some stories...

If I have time and will, I'll dig into the ONS murder stats later and see what they say.

 

[Ayahuasca]

People were transporting drugs around the place in the 80s- your local smackhead wasn't growing his own. It was a business back then and here were some pretty heavy people involved in it.

As to weapons, I didn't see them routinely carried in the 80s when I was a teen, but they did get used on occasion. The football lads I knew could tell you some stories...

If I have time and will, I'll dig into the ONS murder stats later and see what they say.

The difference is you're talking about mostly adults there, where this discussion is centred around what young teenagers are getting up to. There are clear differences in young youth culture between now and the 80's...

Pretty much nobody was recruiting 13 year olds to hop on trains and deliver product across the country.

 

[alchal]

Guess how many of these pre-dated 90's kids:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_firms_(organised_crime)

Just because you had a sheltered upbringing and lack of "news" doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Not sure what you are getting at with that?
So you re saying organised crime existed pre 90's kids, well obviously.
We are discussing the role of the kids in ever more violent criminal activity than was around back then.

Unless you can show some stats that show otherwise.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

This scum will get out in his 30's....

Personally think he needs longer to think about it. Imagine stabbing a kid 70 times then trying to cut off their head. Utterly abhorrent.

 

[potatolord]

The difference is you're talking about mostly adults there, where this discussion is centred around what young teenagers are getting up to. There are clear differences in young youth culture between now and the 80's...

Pretty much nobody was recruiting 13 year olds to hop on trains and deliver product across the country.

That's your guess.

I can't say for sure, as I never saw it myself, but I'd guess younger kids were used a couriers, too. It's just such an obvious thing to do.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Culture has shifted definitely.

Not saying this specific case is because of that, but my god culture seems to be going down the toilet.

 

[LabR@t]

data collected by the Metropolitan Police Service. This work showed that in London in 2017, 50% of knife crime offenders were BAME (up from 44% in 2008). In this total, 50% were under the age of 25 and the majority (90%) were male. 50% of knife crime victims were BAME. A similar pattern emerged when examining knife crime with injury. In 2017, 83% of offenders were male, 35% were aged between 17 to 24, and 69% were BAME. Victims of knife injuries shared a similar profile with offenders. 78% of victims were male, 32% were aged between 17 to 24, and 55% were BAME. Ethnic disparities were also evidenced when looking at knife possession. In 2017, 53% of possession of knife suspects were Black, and 37% of all suspects were Black men under the age of 25. This resonates with the arrest data on stop and search which showed that 56% of all people arrested for offensive weapons following a stop and search were Black.

 

[LabR@t]

Among adults, Black men were about 8.4 times more likely to be arrested for robbery compared with White men.[footnote 14] However, they were less likely than White men to be proceeded against at a magistrates’ court. At Crown Court, not guilty pleas were significantly more likely but custodial remand actually lower for Black men relative to White men

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Statistics are racist, please stop.

But yes most London knife crime it's very obvious. Mostly gangs stabbing each other.

 

[Freakbro]

This scum will get out in his 30's....

Personally think he needs longer to think about it. Imagine stabbing a kid 70 times then trying to cut off their head. Utterly abhorrent.

I imagine there's a lot of conditions to his potential release, far beyond just time served as the judge remarked

The judge warned Grzeszcz he may never be released.

 

[LabR@t]

Statistics are racist, please stop.

But yes most London knife crime it's very obvious. Mostly gangs stabbing each other.

Sorry

 

[Efour]

Death penalty now.

Whats the actual point of this waste of skin growing up? Some people are just broken and need to be disposed of.

 

[LabR@t]

If he's guilty 100% no doubt, yes hang them

 

[200sols]

I imagine there's a lot of conditions to his potential release, far beyond just time served as the judge remarked

He should have been categorically told he would never be released. Don't give these people hope. You cant rehabilitate people like this.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

Among adults, Black men were about 8.4 times more likely to be arrested for robbery compared with White men.[footnote 14] However, they were less likely than White men to be proceeded against at a magistrates’ court. At Crown Court, not guilty pleas were significantly more likely but custodial remand actually lower for Black men relative to White men

Isn't everyone in this awful event white?

Also, the Bulger case called to say they found your rose-tinted spectacles of what young people can unfortunately do to other kids. This 'new' case isn't new behaviour at all.

 

[Dis86]

Isn't everyone in this awful event white?

Also, the Bulger case called to say they found your rose-tinted spectacles of what young people can unfortunately do to other kids. This 'new' case isn't new behaviour at all.

That was a random killing by two very very unstable individuals (one arguably more so than the other). This was targeted over drugs. Two completely different situations.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

So are you saying the killer in this newer story was not unstable? He seems unstable from the little I've read. Are we then also saying that being unstable makes it ok but doing it over drugs is somehow worse?

e: not trying to put words in your mouth, genuinely asking if there's a league table of badness that we tolerate up to.

 

[Dis86]

So are you saying the killer in this newer story was not unstable? He seems unstable from the little I've read. Are we then also saying that being unstable makes it ok but doing it over drugs is somehow worse?

e: not trying to put words in your mouth, genuinely asking if there's a league table of badness that we tolerate up to.

No, but there's a difference in motive which is key. Like I say, one was an opportune attack on a random child with no prior motive. This one is a targeted attack because of a grievance.

 

[explicit4u]

More kids doing drugs = more kids selling drugs

iirc the increase in drug use in england and wales was almost exclusively down to a large increase in young people using drugs.

 

[cheesefest]

Always starts at home. A safe and secure upbringing wouldn't lead anyone to thinking this was an OK course of action to take.

Most serial killers have poor upbringing. That doesn’t make everyone who had a poor upbringing a serial killer.

My mum’s father was no father figure, cleared off for several months (not in the armed forces) and she has no memory of him. He died when she was 6. Her mother had no time for her or sister. She even had a key to get home after school aged 6! She was brought up by her lovely grandmother, best friend’s parents and grandmothers.