Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[Enkore]

Tochkas are most useful against static targets like infrastructure, storage facilities, massed troops, etc. if things kick off Ukraine will likely have a reasonable amount of notice thanks to Western intel and likely reposition a lot of stuff, get aircraft up, spread out troops, etc. sure some stuff will become casualties to cruise missiles and the likes once Russia starts getting intel from things like UAVs and satellite or people on the ground. Your thinking seems quite top trumps centric but war in reality often isn't like that.

You do realize that even if Ukraine gets its planes up, the Russian radars can pretty much track majority of Ukranian airspace from Border, Crimea and Belarus.

It seems like Ukraine has been getting a lot of notices and showing zero care.

Or you are saying that US is being a drama queen? Because if not, they should be mobilizing right now

Those planes airborne are just as useful as on ground.

 

[Rroff]

You do realize that even if Ukraine gets its planes up, the Russian radars can pretty much track majority of Ukranian airspace from Border, Crimea and Belarus.

Those planes airborne are just as useful as on ground.

With data saturation and airspace pollution especially if they have their own aircraft active as well the usefulness of that is much more limited in reality (most SAMs and air-to-air engagements in reality will be relatively short range as well compared to the headline performance - generally 60 miles or less).

 

[Enkore]

With data saturation and airspace pollution especially if they have their own aircraft active as well the usefulness of that is much more limited in reality.

What data saturation and air pollution? Ukraine has like 60 or something planes. Russians can wait to enter their air space before its taken care of.

 

[alchal]

Why don't we just all get together and pre-emptively invade Russia? If we truly believe they are about to roll into Europe then why don't we attack first and suffer less losses.

Probably because....nukes.

But you know that .

 

[alchal]

BBC doing a right sob storey on tonight’s news. Wonder what the Russian pov is? How long it is since we heard from the Russian pov in our free press.
Coz only Russia runs propaganda. How poop everyone else is if this is the balanced view.

Well we have you, so what's your viewpoint my old rusbot fruitcake.

 

[alchal]

I wonder who Russia will go for after Ukraine? It’s a slippery slope if they go for this. Interestingly they are leaving themselves pretty undefended having committed so many of their armed forces. I hope we’ve armed Ukraine real good. Shame Ukraine don’t have nukes anymore, well done politicians.

They have moved most from the eastern/China region so I assume China is in on his little escapde.

 

[Rroff]

What data saturation and air pollution? Ukraine has like 60 or something planes. Russians can wait to enter their air space before its taken care of.

In a real war scenario you've got weather, terrain, decoys, missiles and various other assets friend and foe to deal with on radar, etc. and need to combine a lot of data. In reality engagement ranges are going to be sub 60 miles or so other than fire missions against very specific targets even with stuff like the S-400.

 

[Enkore]

In a real war scenario you've got weather, terrain, decoys, missiles and various other assets friend and foe to deal with on radar, etc. and need to combine a lot of data. In reality engagement ranges are going to be sub 60 miles or so other than fire missions against very specific targets even with stuff like the S-400.

Who said about engagement ranges? I was specifically talking about radar. You can pick out one by one later. Thats the easier part.

Positioning S-300, S-400 radars in places I told you, Russians can view Ukraine airspace very well.

Combine that with A-50 Awacs along border and you are really monitoring all airspace.

 

[Rroff]

Who said about engagement ranges? I was specifically talking about radar. You can pick out one by one later. Thats the easier part.

Positioning S-300, S-400 radars in places I told you, Russians can view Ukraine airspace very well.

Engagement range ultimately becomes important - just tracking aircraft alone is of limited use.

 

[Enkore]

Engagement range ultimately becomes important - just tracking aircraft alone is of limited use.

Have you ever seen people play counter strike with wall hack? It makes a huge difference - that alone.

I would not be surprised if Russians are already monitoring under pretext of drills.

 

[alchal]

Who said about engagement ranges? I was specifically talking about radar. You can pick out one by one later. Thats the easier part.

Positioning S-300, S-400 radars in places I told you, Russians can view Ukraine airspace very well.

Combine that with A-50 Awacs along border and you are really monitoring all airspace.

We get it, Russia super stongz , just like Chechnya where they steamrolled some peasants armed with a few RPGs...how did that end for the mighty russian military again?


Also the west will have AWACS and other intel platforms up monitoring and sending information to the Ukrainian military.

 

[Enkore]

We get it, Russia super stongz , just like Chechnya where they steamrolled some peasants armed with a few RPGs...how did that end for the mighty russian military again

Also the west will have AWACS and other intel platforms up monitoring and sending information to the Ukrainian military.

Ukraine is not Afghanistan or Chechnya. It really is not the same. I’m not going to make a joke about world most powerful military in history being reduced to asking their enemy (Taliban) to provide security during fleeing.

Sure our Awacs will help in western Ukraine by flying within EU airspace. How about Kyiv or Kharkhov? Will our Awacs literally fly over Ukraine?

Like I said, all this parroting inspired Ukranians to ditch Minsk Agreements and think they can take chances with Russia.

Then the events after that can end in very sad way. Not just for Ukraine but for whole continent.

 

[Rroff]

Have you ever seen people play counter strike with wall hack? It makes a huge difference - that alone.

I would not be surprised if Russians are already monitoring under pretext of drills.

You still need to actually do something with that information and even with advanced radar systems which can eliminate clutter to an extent over that kind of range you have a ton of pollution even without decoys, attempts at jamming, other stuff like missiles, etc. The reality both in tracking and engagement in the real world is very different - even if your own assets are somewhat protected via FoF idents. Then in this context there is the issue of civilian air traffic which might be on the periphery - you can't just see a few jets flying about Ukraine and lob some missiles at them - wouldn't take much for one to lock onto something else and down an airliner 200 miles off target.

 

[Enkore]

You still need to actually do something with that information and even with advanced radar systems which can eliminate clutter to an extent over that kind of range you have a ton of pollution even without decoys, attempts at jamming, other stuff like missiles, etc. The reality both in tracking and engagement in the real world is very different - even if your own assets are somewhat protected via FoF idents. Then in this context there is the issue of civilian air traffic which might be on the periphery - you can't just see a few jets flying about Ukraine and lob some missiles at them - wouldn't take much for one to lock onto something else and down an airliner 200 miles off target.

You do realize that SAM systems and AWACS and even full array radars on modern planes all communicate together and are able to address these issues?

 

[Rroff]

You do realize that SAM systems and AWACS and even full array radars on modern planes all communicate together and are able to address these issues?

Which then leads to the data saturation issues in a real war situation.

 

[Enkore]

Which then leads to the data saturation issues in a real war situation.

You do know AWACS are able to take control and assign groups which mitigates this problem?

 

[Rroff]

You do know AWACS are able to take control and assign groups which mitigates this problem?

You are looking at it very top trumps and/or video game style - in a real war with something of this scale, with 1000s of different things going on, it is very different and hence why real engagements are generally much shorter range. And that doesn't even include a situation like this where you have surrounding NATO countries civilian traffic to worry about as well.

 

[Enkore]

You are looking at it very top trumps and/or video game style - in a real war with something of this scale, with 1000s of different things going on, it is very different and hence why real engagements are generally much shorter range. And that doesn't even include a situation like this where you have surrounding NATO countries civilian traffic to worry about as well.

I’m not looking at this trumps level. Look at Syria. Plenty of chances to iron out any kinks. That place is an intelligence hell hole. Tiny area where every big player in the air.

Like I said, majority of Ukraines army and assets are focused in Donbass. Look at map of Ukraine and realize that any area apart from western Ukraine is nowhere near NATO borders. So you can forget about that AWACS inteligence.

Your nato borders begin once moldova is cleared around chernovitsy.

Kyiv is literally almost 600KM to nearest nato border

 

[Rroff]

I’m not looking at this trumps level. Look at Syria. Plenty of chances to iron out any kinks. That place is an intelligence hell hole. Tiny area where every big player in the air.

Syria is not exactly a poster child, even if lessons are learnt, with the number of accidental shooting down (i.e. the Russian reconnaissance plane with 15 personnel) and generally limited or non-use of longer range systems for precisely these kind of reasons.

 

[Enkore]

Syria is not exactly a poster child, even if lessons are learnt, with the number of accidental shooting down (i.e. the Russian reconnaissance plane with 15 personnel) and generally limited or non-use of longer range systems for precisely these kind of reasons.

Thats hardly a great example, I don’t think Russia will be invading Ukraine with 3rd country. Syrians shot down Russian plane in FF.