Why are you not vegan....

[jpaul]

posts a massive pile of salt-loaded processed food...

+1 fried food is bad in any language
.. laughed this morning with just eat boss evangalizing about cost of living crisis - he's partly responsible for the nations bad health/nhs costs, promoting delivering crap.

also, from r4 diet, this morning - new army candidates having inadequate bone density due to (vegan?) diet
.. first of all it would be a right pain accomodating alternative diets in the household,
but especially for vegan adolescents I'd want them to have some kind of calcium / other nutrient medical check (I think you can only do bones via x-rays/scans?)
there's been enough written about future ramifications ostoporosis/brittle bones that people may inflict on themselves, so the average vegan diet being 'superior' - not sure I'd agree on that.

 

[Tony Edwards]

+1 fried food is bad in any language
.. laughed this morning with just eat boss evangalizing about cost of living crisis - he's partly responsible for the nations bad health/nhs costs, promoting delivering crap.

also, from r4 diet, this morning - new army candidates having inadequate bone density due to (vegan?) diet
.. first of all it would be a right pain accomodating alternative diets in the household,
but especially for vegan adolescents I'd want them to have some kind of calcium / other nutrient medical check (I think you can only do bones via x-rays/scans?)
there's been enough written about future ramifications ostoporosis/brittle bones that people may inflict on themselves, so the average vegan diet being 'superior' - not sure I'd agree on that.

And yet there is none of that in those that eat meat. I think you may have won the argument.

Oh no wait thats not correct either. Meat eaters still can and do have those problems. You certainly may have to be more aware on a vegan diet but that doesnt mean that those not on a vegan diet are perfectly diet balanced.

People defend eating meat because they like eating meat. People defend cruelty to animals because they are *********.

 

[jpaul]

Oh no wait thats not correct either. Meat eaters still can and do have those problems. You certainly may have to be more aware on a vegan diet but that doesnt mean that those not on a vegan diet are perfectly diet balanced.

yes omnivores(?) will also suffer problems - heart disease perhaps .... but, maybe there is a smoking analogy/time-bomb, with increasing vegan demographic, could they wake up in 40 years time with reduced bone density/fractures, is there a matured vegan population that provides a decent data set.

 

[Raymond Lin]

yes omnivores(?) will also suffer problems - heart disease perhaps .... but, maybe there is a smoking analogy/time-bomb, with increasing vegan demographic, could they wake up in 40 years time with reduced bone density/fractures, is there a matured vegan population that provides a decent data set.

Seeing a lot of vegans revert back to a meat diet, even infrequently...and that veganism in the west only really started in the 50's...and even in my own memory, the word really has really popped into my radar in the past 10 years? I'd say not large enough to be significant. I would say there are more people who smoke than there are vegans out there.

Edit - Also, I think for any studies about whether veganism is beneficial to health, you need to compare it not just the "average" population, because the average population eats a lot of crap. Both groups in the study needs to live similar life style choices, from exercise, to smoking, drinking, amount of sugar and salt intake. As our general population continues to get fatter and less healthy as a trend, I think we all agree that by cutting out sugars and processed stuff in anyone's diet would be a benefit without going vegan. So the study needs to be very nuanced in the 2 groups they are comparing with. It's not really valid to say if someone who smokes and eats McDonald's all day turn vegan but quit smoking and take up swimming in the same time and then you attribute his 6 pack to the vegan diet 12 months later.

 

[moon man]

This is all irrelevant to me anyway, i am vegan because nothing needs to die be on my plate ,if it causes my left leg to drop off so be it ,its not about me ,luckily the vegan diet has only increased my muscle mass ,ended eczema and increased my energy ,but that's just incidental

 

[Diddums]

This is all irrelevant to me anyway, i am vegan because nothing needs to die be on my plate ,if it causes my left leg to drop off so be it ,its not about me ,luckily the vegan diet has only increased my muscle mass ,ended eczema and increased my energy ,but that's just incidental

Fair enough, I'll support that all day long. It's when people try and shove it down my throat or guilt-trip me in to adapting to their way of life that I get annoyed.

If it works for you then all the best to you, I love meat and will continue to eat it, but I'm not trying to convince anyone to join me

 

[Philtor]

People defend eating meat because they like eating meat. People defend cruelty to animals because they are *********.

I don’t think any carnivore in this thread, myself included, wants to see an animal suffer. Some of us just appreciate meat. As long as the animal is killed humanely, what is the issue? If we didn’t eat chickens then the whole place would be covered in **** and cockerels wakening you at 5:00am

 

[moon man]

Fair enough, I'll support that all day long. It's when people try and shove it down my throat or guilt-trip me in to adapting to their way of life that I get annoyed.

If it works for you then all the best to you, I love meat and will continue to eat it, but I'm not trying to convince anyone to join me

I ate meat for a long time before my trigger even when my ex was veggie ,its weird but when you wake up to it its like Théoden in LOTR ,suddenly realising what's happening ,I think like me its something some will do after a similar trigger ,maybe seeing a one way trip cattle truck on the motorway

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Why hasn’t ritual (non-humane) slaughter been banned?

 

[Devilman]

What youre saying is absurd, you only need to watch the documentary I posted, view slaughterhouse footage or pigs being "processed" as piglets.

We don't need some scientific paper to tell me that when I watch footage of pig having its tail chopped off and it squeals, or when a cow gets bolt gunned in the head a few times because it doesn't always work and it bellows, to know these animals obviously suffer and obviously feel pain.

This is precisely the point I was making.
You are making multiple assumptions based upon anthropomorphisation of the piglet. You are seeing behaviours and reactions and attributing HUMAN feels, reactions and emotions to them.
You have absolutely 0 evidence that pigs feel pain or suffering in the same way human do, yet you persist in being adamant that YOU are right.~

You sound like a typical Brexit supporter. "We don't need experts or facts, I am sure (With 0 evidence or education in the field) that what I believe is correct and everyone else is wrong, despite having no evidence to support it"

 

[Devilman]

Why hasn’t ritual (non-humane) slaughter been banned?

Indeed.. there are some truly horrific methods of slaughter that are still in use daily and Vegans wanna bitch at those people who choose to eat meat that was raised and cared for as best as it could be, then slaughtered as humanely as possible, it's utterly laughable.
If Vegans really wanted to make an impact against animal suffering, try targeting those disgusting inhumane slaughter practices such as Halal. But no, it's far easier to sit behind a keyboard and berate those who choose to have a sausage at the weekend BBQ.

It's laughable and frankly pathetic.

 

[dowie]

Why hasn’t ritual (non-humane) slaughter been banned?

The same reason circumcision (at least for male babies) hasn't been banned, established religious groups would kick off and cause no end of grief...

If that sort of thing didn't already exist and some new religion like Scientology decided that they should be exempt from animal welfare laws because Xenu has declared they need to do a little chant and then perform some ritual killing they'd be told to wind their necks in, but established stuff is going to be harder to change.

I guess, in a similar way, if cigarettes were invented today they'd probably be outlawed but because smoking is already well established then it's not likely to be banned any time soon whereas weed is already illegal.

 

[LeeUK]

Because I am a meat eater and refuse to let holier than thou people like you make me feel guilty for something that man has been doing for millions of years

We didn't have disgusting factory farming millions of years ago. Animals lived a fulfilled live in the wild before being hunted, not factory farmed like today.

 

[Stretch]

i don’t eat a lot of meat, and very little red meat. But I would find it very difficult to remove it from my diet completely. Dairy even more so.

 

[Raymond Lin]

We didn't have disgusting factory farming millions of years ago. Animals lived a fulfilled live in the wild before being hunted, not factory farmed like today.

2 separate issue

1 - Eating meat
2 - Factory farming.

I think most people are against factory farming. However, some reason, and IMO, incorrectly and even...stupidly, their energy has been spent trying to stop people eating meat instead, and point eating meat as the evil act.

Yes I know, the argument/rebuttal would be that if you don't eat meat then you won't need factory farming, yady yada. But you know as well as I do, and so is everyone, there is no way to turn the whole population to stop eating meat. For some amusing reason, they seem to push for this before everything else.

Why bother? It's a waste of time. Especially on the high horse they've been riding when talking down to people.

Spend your energy towards point NO.2 and you will have meat eaters on your side too.

 

[Johno please?]

This is precisely the point I was making.
You are making multiple assumptions based upon anthropomorphisation of the piglet. You are seeing behaviours and reactions and attributing HUMAN feels, reactions and emotions to them.
You have absolutely 0 evidence that pigs feel pain or suffering in the same way human do, yet you persist in being adamant that YOU are right.~

You sound like a typical Brexit supporter. "We don't need experts or facts, I am sure (With 0 evidence or education in the field) that what I believe is correct and everyone else is wrong, despite having no evidence to support it"

lol, no, I know this because just like us, most non human animals have the ability to feel pain through pain receptors that tell the brain its being harmed. So a pig squeals when its tail is chopped off because what, it thinks its funny or something?

Its like trying to argue with a creationist or something

This thread and all your posts will accomplish absolutely nothing.

Just like yours then.

Keeps going on about how healthy vegan food is, posts a massive pile of salt-loaded processed food...

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised given how we got pages and pages of "vEganIsM iS goOd fOr tha enVironMent" oh but driving and going on transatlantic flights is fine even if it's 8 times worse for the environment

You really struggle with this dont you, I never claimed vegan burgers were healthy and Ive said countless times "its BETTER for the environment compared to animal agriculture"

Unrelated to food but animal abuse wise... I only found out recently we're still testing on beagles :|

Whimpering dogs forced into cages on UK 'factory farm' ahead of lab experiments

WARNING - DISTRESSING IMAGES: EXCLUSIVE: Footage shows beagles being piled onto overcrowded trolleys and whimpering before being force fed chemicals for 90 days in what comedian Ricky Gervais called 'terrible cruelty'

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[andybird123]

its BETTER for the environment compared to animal agriculture

I'm not struggling with anything, I'm not telling you what to do, I'm also not being a massive hypocrite about it.

 

[Diddums]

Just like yours then.

Remind me again who started this thread?

 

[Freefaller]

This is all irrelevant to me anyway, i am vegan because nothing needs to die be on my plate ,if it causes my left leg to drop off so be it ,its not about me ,luckily the vegan diet has only increased my muscle mass ,ended eczema and increased my energy ,but that's just incidental

That's laudable and I support and praise you for your attitude it's spot on.

You must have done some extensive research and food prep to gain muscle mass though, but I'm certain you will have dropped body fat and thus also enhance your physique. Vegan bodybuilders do ok, but they supplement the **** out of everything they can, and take a lot of shakes and vitamins (and let's not beat around the bush, the phenomenal ones are on gear).

Then again non vegans take lots of supplements too so not suggesting it's bad. However gaining muscle mass and not damaging your oestrogen and testosterone balance on vegan only diet required phenomenal patience and preparation.

Good on you for doing that! As an avid fitness freak I do explore vegetarian options, but they're definitely not vegan! Eggs are just too important for me (2-3 a day on average!).

 

[Tony Edwards]

2 separate issue

1 - Eating meat
2 - Factory farming.

I think most people are against factory farming. However, some reason, and IMO, incorrectly and even...stupidly, their energy has been spent trying to stop people eating meat instead, and point eating meat as the evil act.

Yes I know, the argument/rebuttal would be that if you don't eat meat then you won't need factory farming, yady yada. But you know as well as I do, and so is everyone, there is no way to turn the whole population to stop eating meat. For some amusing reason, they seem to push for this before everything else.

Why bother? It's a waste of time. Especially on the high horse they've been riding when talking down to people.

Spend your energy towards point NO.2 and you will have meat eaters on your side too.

Let me see if I have got this right. You expect those that don't eat animal products to police or campaign for better animal slaughter? Should that not be your job if as you say you care about how animals are kept and slaughtered?

No? I thought not as you don't really give two ***** about animal welfare as long as you can keep eating it.