Why are you not vegan....

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Tony Edwards said:
lol Im not the ones with animals hormones running around my body. It is you that is angry.

Im not the one defending killing defenceless animals for my pleasure.
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See what I mean? “Animal hormones”, ive not sworn (you have), I’ve not used caps - shouting (you have), I’ve not trying to tell you to go eat meat. I’ve not called you stupid directly, you have to me. Despite all that I’ve not raised my tone with you (caps) or sworn.

You keep suggesting that by eating meat I’m killing “defenceless animals for pleasure”. Clearly you are trying to tell me not to.

You sure you are not campaigning? You sure you are not angry? Your posts don’t match what you are saying.

Go relax, have a glass of wine or something.
 
Tony Edwards said:
I AM NOT A VEGAN AND AM NOT CAMPAIGNING.


I am not a vegan but I dont use animal products except eggs. I do like most of the people that eat things eat a lot of vegan things. I just ate an apple. Im a monster.
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Yet you pop personal jibes towards people that are at peace with it.

Having slaughtered a cow and a lamb I'll admit I didn't get any excitement or thrill out of it. It was a visceral experience and something that sticks with me. Has it stopped me eating meat? No. I do make an effort to eat locally produced meat. Does it make it better? For vegetarians and vegans of course not. For me slightly but mainly because it tastes better rather than anything else.

Thinking of people who are at peace with being an omnivore as a lower level of human is frankly as pathetic as those that say we shouldn't eat meat.

From a very basic level it's easier to get nutrition from a broad diet which includes meat or at least fish and eggs. Vegetarianism is a great lifestyle IMO but does require a little more effort that a pescatarian diet or even an omnivorous diet. Veganism requires significant effort to ensure you get your full macro and micro nutrients.

I will accept it's possibly lazier to be omnivorous than not. However a broad varied diet is unquestionably fantastic for health and well-being. Unfortunately to achieve that breadth either meat free or not still requires a bit of skill and knowledge which is something not everyone has.

If we're going to start preaching and pointing fingers, highly processed foods and foods ladened with sugars and palm oil etc... Should be removed. However that's a pretty Draconian approach - as people should be entitled to have a choice.... That said get rid of those and a significant health and obesity epidemic would be solved.
 
Freefaller said:
If we're going to start preaching and pointing fingers, highly processed foods and foods ladened with sugars and palm oil etc... Should be removed. However that's a pretty Draconian approach - as people should be entitled to have a choice.... That said get rid of those and a significant health and obesity epidemic would be solved.
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I am not preaching you are.

Raymond Lin said:
See what I mean? “Animal hormones”, ive not sworn (you have), I’ve not used caps - shouting (you have), I’ve not trying to tell you to go eat meat. I’ve not called you stupid directly, you have to me. Despite all that I’ve not raised my tone with you (caps) or sworn.

You keep suggesting that by eating meat I’m killing “defenceless animals for pleasure”. Clearly you are trying to tell me not to.

You sure you are not campaigning? You sure you are not angry? Your posts don’t match what you are saying.

Go relax, have a glass of wine or something.
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Raymond Raymond. You dont need to swear or use caps because your posts are already insulting in themself.

I used the caps as it just seems I have to repeat myself time and time again. You eat meat if you want too but dont freak out because I choose not too.

That is basicaly what has happened in this thread. Meat eaters have gone a bit insane and childish. You all keep freaking out because someone choses not to eat animals. Cant you just let it be.
 
I’m putting you on ignore Tony. So if I don’t reply, that’s why. Giving you the courtesy to let you know. Feel free to take that as an insult if you want, I’m sure you will.
 
So you throw a blanket statement that calls people who are trying to engage in a fair discussion as inane and childish?

Now had Raymond said "lol I'm a carnivore, I ******* love killing meat and eating it!!! Lol the bloodier the better! **** vegetables! Roflolol" or something like that , the yes I'd be supporting you.

However you're ranting as if Raymond and others have committed grievous crimes against your pet chihuahua.

I'm preaching as much as you are. Making salient facts about poor quality foods and processed foods. I have nothing against your lifestyle and I admire it. As mentioned I even supported your perspective by calling omnivores a diet of convenience for getting the best nutrition. Does it mean it's bad? Not if you're at peace with eating meat. And selfishly if it promotes good health why wouldn't you want to do it (the varied healthy diet not meat per se.)?

Anyway it's clear we will have to agree to disagree and I'm perfectly happy with that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion whether people think they are right or not. However what makes us human is not holding those opinions against a person and seeing past the disagreement.
 
Tony Edwards said:
I am not preaching you are.


Raymond Raymond. You dont need to swear or use caps because your posts are already insulting in themself.

I used the caps as it just seems I have to repeat myself time and time again. You eat meat if you want too but dont freak out because I choose not too.

That is basicaly what has happened in this thread. Meat eaters have gone a bit insane and childish. You all keep freaking out because someone choses not to eat animals. Cant you just let it be.
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That's the exact opposite of what has happened. A vegan has started this thread calling all omnivores "animal abusers", that is literally in the opening post. If we're supposed to "let it be" then perhaps the vegans should stop just making stuff up and quoting "science" that even the writers of said "science" have admitted they miscalculated, whilst telling people not to do things which are far less harmful the environment they profess to want to protect from "meat eaters" who actually harm the environment about 6-8 times less than the other things the vegans do.
 
andybird123 said:
That's the exact opposite of what has happened. A vegan has started this thread calling all omnivores "animal abusers", that is literally in the opening post. If we're supposed to "let it be" then perhaps the vegans should stop just making stuff up and quoting "science" that even the writers of said "science" have admitted they miscalculated, whilst telling people not to do things which are far less harmful the environment they profess to want to protect from "meat eaters" who actually harm the environment about 6-8 times less than the other things the vegans do.
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Yes but I havent. Meat eaters have put pictures of cooked meat and someone even put a video of a lion eating an obvioulsy in shock gazelle and tried to claim animals dont feel pain the same way humans do so its okay.

Its childish.
 
Tony Edwards said:
Yes but I havent. Meat eaters have put pictures of cooked meat and someone even put a video of a lion eating an obvioulsy in shock gazelle and tried to claim animals dont feel pain the same way humans do so its okay.

Its childish.
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Your not the only poster in the thread, no, but not every response is a response to you either.
Johno has reaped what he has sown.
 
I think many of the posters in this thread could do with improving their logical reasoning skills. A good place to start would be to understand what logical fallacies are and how to avoid poorly argued positions:

List of fallacies - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I'm not sure what people want to get out of posting in this thread. What are you trying to prove? Why get so angry over some comments on the internet? You're basically projecting your own negative feelings back at yourself. Getting one over someone else doesn't change anything. Life isn't a zero-sum game. It might be worth putting the keyboard down for a bit and start treating yourself better before directing it at other people.

There are lines of argument that make this topic interesting and not so simple as people are trying to make out in this thread. I wish the world was that simple.
 
Tony Edwards said:
Yes but I havent. Meat eaters have put pictures of cooked meat and someone even put a video of a lion eating an obvioulsy in shock gazelle and tried to claim animals dont feel pain the same way humans do so its okay.

Its childish.
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Assume this was aimed at me as I posted that and it clearly flew miles above your head, as did the 12+ citations I gave, as did the neurological definitions I gave - despite your jibes, I have a degree in a neuroscience discipline, so I know exactly I'm talking about - whereas, as pointed out by all and sundry, you are spouting amygdala-laden emotional vents...

I didn't 'try' to claim that animals don't feel pain the same way humans do - I assumed it was patently self-evident from over 100 years of science. I get you might not grasp the fundamental differences between the brains of a cow and a human, for example - but come on, you must be able to fathom even a layman's common-sense understanding. I mean, forgetting the radically different regional-developments of the two brains - including the key centres involved in pain perception (which I've outlined in previous post), even a butcher could tell the difference! I mean you can visibly see the gyri and sulci variances, you can hold one in each of your hands and tell one weighs almost three times the amount of the other!

And yet, you genuinely believe there is no difference in how they experience pain......? A human's brain has hyper-developed to consist of ~2% of our body-weight, yet you are comparing to animals that it accounts for less than 0.1%. It truly is a childish understanding - and I don't mean it emotionally as you did, I just mean it genuinely precludes 2nd year biology at school.

Now, this isn't degree-level precision, but I'm starting with the basics - do you really believe all the brains below can 'feel pain' - or indeed any other cognitive process the same as a human brain?

fnhum-03-031-g003.gif


It's very hard to respond when you're starting from such a base position - there's some really interesting stuff here, but you have to be willing to listen.

To talk more 'OCUK', this is like someone in the forums arguing that their ATI Radeon 9700 Pro is 'just as able' to render games as an RTX 3090 - again you could just give both cards to a layman and even if they had no idea about computers, they'd be able to a) spot a fundamental difference and b) estimate which is the most powerful and c) conclude that they would render graphics very differently....

To the same analogy, at no point have I said other animals can't feel pain, just like these two cards can both render, but they are totally different experiences.....


To the many, many posts that others have repeated - I've got no issue with vegan/vegetarianism or any other diet trend/fad, but I don't have much time for preaching or unscientific assumption.
 
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