Armed gang violence. What's going on in Liverpool?

[Dis86]

Mental health issues became the new (and more enveloping) go to after the "bad back" ages ago, do try and keep up

No no, I mean the people that are actual unwell. Not the ones off for stress because someone changed the ketchup brand in the canteen (actual example I dealt with).

 

[Tony Edwards]

No no, I mean the people that are actual unwell. Not the ones off for stress because someone changed the ketchup brand in the canteen (actual example I dealt with).

Who the hell put you the person in a position to deal with those sort of things?

 

[inogen]

A question I keep asking and cannot get an answer to is why we seemingly have such a big 'mental health crisis' at the minute.
If we had the same for physical health there would be people looking at the causes and coming up with solutions.
Or are the causes known and the solutions just unpalatable?

2m people having to use foodbanks is probably a good indicator of why there's so much poor mental health.

I know money doesn't necessarily make people happy, but being poor certainly doesn't.

 

[Dis86]

2m people having to use foodbanks is probably a good indicator of why there's so much poor mental health.

I know money doesn't necessarily make people happy, but being poor certainly doesn't.

Except this issue started before the rise of food banks. Agree poverty doesn't help.

 

[dowie]

I did think that perhaps you can't blame people fearing for their for trying to escape as best as they could, saw an open door and so charged in but then this seems pretty scummy:

Family of tragic nine-year-old Olivia pay tribute to 'beautiful' girl

The devastated family of little Olivia Pratt-Korbel who was senselessly murdered in her home in Liverpool at bedtime today tore into the 'scum' and cowardly gunman who callously shot her dead.

www.dailymail.co.uk

He forced his way in to her family home while trying to flee a masked gunman, and while the little girl lay dying, Nee, who was also shot, was taken to hospital by his friends in a black Audi.

 

[Werewolf]

2m people having to use foodbanks is probably a good indicator of why there's so much poor mental health.

I know money doesn't necessarily make people happy, but being poor certainly doesn't.

Not to mention huge numbers of people having lost friends and relatives, and other stressors.

No no, I mean the people that are actual unwell. Not the ones off for stress because someone changed the ketchup brand in the canteen (actual example I dealt with).

Which may have been the last thing in a very very long chain of events...I've heard of people who've seemingly coped well with all sorts of extreme events suddenly just hitting their breaking point over something seemingly utterly trivial, things that have remained the same for years changing suddenly being incredibly important out of all normal proportion because it's yet another thing that's outside of their control.

From what I understand it's often something seemingly small and trivial that becomes the final straw for people who've been under stress for a long time. Much the same way that a glass table might seem fine for years with full dinners being served on it, then one day you put an empty mug on it and all those invisible internal stresses and pressures suddenly go and it shatters.

 

[Dis86]

Not to mention huge numbers of people having lost friends and relatives, and other stressors.



Which may have been the last thing in a very very long chain of events...I've heard of people who've seemingly coped well with all sorts of extreme events suddenly just hitting their breaking point over something seemingly utterly trivial, things that have remained the same for years changing suddenly being incredibly important out of all normal proportion because it's yet another thing that's outside of their control.

From what I understand it's often something seemingly small and trivial that becomes the final straw for people who've been under stress for a long time. Much the same way that a glass table might seem fine for years with full dinners being served on it, then one day you put an empty mug on it and all those invisible internal stresses and pressures suddenly go and it shatters.

People lose friends and relatives every day unfortunately. People have been losing them since the start of humanity. That doesn't explain the current 'crisis'.

And that would be great, except upon interview with our mental health nurse the individual had nothing. We knew it was a con. The nurse knew it was a con. They knew we knew. All they had to do was get a doctors note however and sweet FA that could be done.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Not to mention huge numbers of people having lost friends and relatives, and other stressors.



Which may have been the last thing in a very very long chain of events...I've heard of people who've seemingly coped well with all sorts of extreme events suddenly just hitting their breaking point over something seemingly utterly trivial, things that have remained the same for years changing suddenly being incredibly important out of all normal proportion because it's yet another thing that's outside of their control.

From what I understand it's often something seemingly small and trivial that becomes the final straw for people who've been under stress for a long time. Much the same way that a glass table might seem fine for years with full dinners being served on it, then one day you put an empty mug on it and all those invisible internal stresses and pressures suddenly go and it shatters.

For God's sake don't change the OCUK forums' format again...

 

[NVP]

A question I keep asking and cannot get an answer to is why we seemingly have such a big 'mental health crisis' at the minute.
If we had the same for physical health there would be people looking at the causes and coming up with solutions.
Or are the causes known and the solutions just unpalatable?

I'm taking a guess at a few reasons, and I would primarily suggest that we have severely under-invested in mental health solutions to prominent problems for quite a long time (addiction treatments, social care, parental courses, but mainly: research).

Without motivation, projects like that rarely take off the ground as they're tied too many years of negative finance.

I recall a few countries have successfully tackled drug/addiction>theft, homelessness - reducing petty crime substantially - via dedicated teams separate from police forces. I'm sure you've seen this type of successful solution too.

We just ain't seem to be bothered..?


In terms of the country being in the middle of a mental health crisis... is it? I guess maybe progression in society has allowed a more open discussion, giving more people information they simply never used to have back in the day. But isn't that just better identification stats?


We have to differentiate between the mental health issues that are actually an epidemic and have viable working solutions against the random nutters who would struggle to be identified anyway (apart from the Jihadis) until after the fact. Oh yes, and the daily trending mental health disease.


However, I chat a lot of **** so who knows hey?

 

[StriderX]

Just Tory policies at work, if you can't afford to hire a personal bodyguard then you don't deserve protection.

 

[NVP]

Damn, so I could have had some dench diesel get my back under Blair for free?

 

[Efour]

2 million people that would rather smoke and watch Netflix am i rite? i bet at least 3/4s have some very misguided priorities.

 

[Dis86]

I'm taking a guess at a few reasons, and I would primarily suggest that we have severely under-invested in mental health solutions to prominent problems for quite a long time (addiction treatments, social care, parental courses, but mainly: research).

Without motivation, projects like that rarely take off the ground as they're tied too many years of negative finance.

I recall a few countries have successfully tackled drug/addiction>theft, homelessness - reducing petty crime substantially - via dedicated teams separate from police forces. I'm sure you've seen this type of successful solution too.

We just ain't seem to be bothered..?


In terms of the country being in the middle of a mental health crisis... is it? I guess maybe progression in society has allowed a more open discussion, giving more people information they simply never used to have back in the day. But isn't that just better identification stats?


We have to differentiate between the mental health issues that are actually an epidemic and have viable working solutions against the random nutters who would struggle to be identified anyway (apart from the Jihadis) until after the fact. Oh yes, and the daily trending mental health disease.


However, I chat a lot of **** so who knows hey?

See, I just look at decades past and the stats from these etc. Suicide rates are dropping. If we're have such chronic lack of investment etc. then why would they drop? Surely they'd increase? I actually think your question of are we really in a crisis is the correct question. Is it just the squeaky wheel making the most noise again?

Actually, worryingly, the rates have dropped largely since the tories took over...

 

[NVP]

See, I just look at decades past and the stats from these etc. Suicide rates are dropping. If we're have such chronic lack of investment etc. then why would they drop? Surely they'd increase? I actually think your question of are we really in a crisis is the correct question. Is it just the squeaky wheel making the most noise again?

Regardless of an actual mental health epidemic, the functions of related services would greatly benefit from investment and reduce strain on the policing services. I mean, what percentage of traffic lights do you drive past which are now manned? I understand the majority of those would not be in need of mental health therapy, however peripheral teams from dedicated services could be more than well equipped to aid with a solution.


Regarding your specific comment on suicide rates, I think that is one area which has many charitable services already at the ready and have been doing so for quite some time now, thankfully.

 

[dcsarge]

We used to treat mental health a lot differently. People were doped up and locked away from society if they had issues that couldn't be dealt with, even severe depression.

Then at some point the balance went to far the other way and we not only got rid of the institutions and asylums but the specialist hospitals and wards that are still needed and bet on 'care in the community' in a system that is chronically unstaffed and underfunded to deal with the scale of the problem.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

I did think that perhaps you can't blame people fearing for their for trying to escape as best as they could, saw an open door and so charged in but then this seems pretty scummy:

Family of tragic nine-year-old Olivia pay tribute to 'beautiful' girl

The devastated family of little Olivia Pratt-Korbel who was senselessly murdered in her home in Liverpool at bedtime today tore into the 'scum' and cowardly gunman who callously shot her dead.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Lets be honest here, even if they offered would you want to get in the car with your 9 year old daughter?

 

[dcsarge]

Regardless of an actual mental health epidemic, the functions of related services would greatly benefit from investment and reduce strain on the policing services. I mean, what percentage of traffic lights do you drive past which are now manned? I understand the majority of those would not be in need of mental health therapy, however peripheral teams from dedicated services could be more than well equipped to aid with a solution.


Regarding your specific comment on suicide rates, I think that is one area which has many charitable services already at the ready and have been doing so for quite some time now, thankfully.

One of the big problems is a lack of trained professionals. It is one of the worst hit areas in terms of retention numbers versus new entrants to the field in the U.K. and U.S.

The problems are the many fold, overwork and burnout, abuse, lower professional pay levels compared to similarly qualified medical professionals.

Also very many people who qualify with a degree in Psychology do not enter the medical field. If you do well you get a lot of offers to work in other areas that pay much better with more benefits.

 

[wesimmo]

At this point more officers just means more capacity for the police to absorb the failings of social services and NHS; there needs to be some fundamental changes in the way all these systems work. Despite what you see regurgitated by the usual names both on here and social media, the vast majority of policing time isn't spent checking Twitter for mean words or dancing at pride festivals, it's dealing with mental health, low-level domestic issues and social care issues. These things are an absolutely staggering drain on resources, and the police are not the best-equipped or trained service to be dealing with them either.

This and more.

When the various services, such as mental health provision, education, community projects, etc get stripped back, the natural consequence is going to be more crime.

Less police on top of that, and them also picking up more 'work' as a result, and its little wonder we are where we are.

 

[platinum87]

Just Tory policies at work, if you can't afford to hire a personal bodyguard then you don't deserve protection.

The ideology supported by the majority of people on this forum (maybe you but im not 100%), is what leads to the current situation which is being discussed.

You imply you believe this is what they think, they don't, its just if you are rich, you have many options. That is the reason the policies exist, because the majority support them.

If you could preview my world, violent and anti-social types of crimes would drop by 99% in the first year, but you would never agree to my policies.

 

[Dis86]

This and more.

When the various services, such as mental health provision, education, community projects, etc get stripped back, the natural consequence is going to be more crime.

Less police on top of that, and them also picking up more 'work' as a result, and its little wonder we are where we are.

Crime is not a natural consequence. Its a conscious decision by individuals. People do not have to commit crimes.