14th Gen "Raptor Lake Refresh"

[Jay-G25]

If Z690 boards get 14th gen (which is now rumoured to be the raptor lake refresh and not meteor lake) I'll be very surprised but happy. It's already an odd feeling on Intel for me, going from a 12900k to a 13900k on my Maximus Z690 hero. If rumours are true and 14th gen raptor lake refresh is 6.2-6.5Ghz, 30% reduced power thanks to new voltage regulator, then damn.......

Still don't buy it

If the rumours are to be believed then yep 14th gen will still be on LGA1700 and will be a drop in replacement, personally i think this will be the case .... i reckon what Intel will do is use this new DLVR to push the clocks as high as possible , so basically they add dlvr to 13th gen get a nice reduction in voltage and power draw for the same clocks then push the voltage and power draw back up along with higher core clocks so will likely end up with same sort of power draw / heat generated as 13th gen but at clocks of over 6Ghz stock with potentially more to come from overclocking . As its looking to be a drop in replacement i will be very interested as my 13900k is average at best being an SP100 sample although i have delided it now which has made it a little better

Intel 14th Gen Raptor Lake Refresh Desktop CPUs Rumored To Clock Up To 6.2 GHz

Intel's 14th Gen Raptor Lake Refresh Desktop CPUs are expected to further boost the clock speeds compared to 13th Gen Raptor Lake chips.

wccftech.com

 

[Dave2150]

If the rumours are to be believed then yep 14th gen will still be on LGA1700 and will be a drop in replacement, personally i think this will be the case .... i reckon what Intel will do is use this new DLVR to push the clocks as high as possible , so basically they add dlvr to 13th gen get a nice reduction in voltage and power draw for the same clocks then push the voltage and power draw back up along with higher core clocks so will likely end up with same sort of power draw / heat generated as 13th gen but at clocks of over 6Ghz stock with potentially more to come from overclocking . As its looking to be a drop in replacement i will be very interested as my 13900k is average at best being an SP100 sample although i have delided it now which has made it a little better

Intel 14th Gen Raptor Lake Refresh Desktop CPUs Rumored To Clock Up To 6.2 GHz

Intel's 14th Gen Raptor Lake Refresh Desktop CPUs are expected to further boost the clock speeds compared to 13th Gen Raptor Lake chips.

wccftech.com

I don't think it's possible for 6.2-6.5Ghz on 10nm with a 30% reduction in power. They'd need major new process improvements for that kind of improvement. I doubt that would even be possible on Intel's 7nm process, at least when it's still in it's infancy.

 

[Grim5]

I don't think 14th gen draws less power, it's the lower voltage curve that they are using to achieve higher clocks but TDP will remain the same. Youd only see lower power draw when operating at the same clocks as 13th Gen. For example the 13900k has a boost clock of 5.8ghz, so a 14900k would be able to do 5.8ghz and be stable with a lower voltage than the 13900k can do, so it would draw less power than the 13900k but instead of doing that, Intel will run both CPUs at the same voltage and that allows the 14900k to be clocked a few hundred MHz higher and be stable

 

[Dave2150]

I don't think 14th gen draws less power, it's the lower voltage curve that they are using to achieve higher clocks but TDP will remain the same. Youd only see lower power draw when operating at the same clocks as 13th Gen. For example the 13900k has a boost clock of 5.8ghz, so a 14900k would be able to do 5.8ghz and be stable with a lower voltage than the 13900k can do, so it would draw less power than the 13900k but instead of doing that, Intel will run both CPUs at the same voltage and that allows the 14900k to be clocked a few hundred MHz higher and be stable

I still doubt they'll be able to reach 6.2-6.5Ghz (one core boost, all core boost unknown, 5.8Ghz perhaps?) on the same process with the same power draw as a 13900k. That requires a huge increase in 10nm performance, I mentioned earlier I doubt even Intel's 7nm would achieve this, in it's first release at least.

 

[Jay-G25]

I don't think it's possible for 6.2-6.5Ghz on 10nm with a 30% reduction in power. They'd need major new process improvements for that kind of improvement. I doubt that would even be possible on Intel's 7nm process, at least when it's still in it's infancy.

A good KS chip will do upto 6.4Ghz on 1 to 2 cores or at least 6.3GHz so with this new dlvr feature it should allow the refresh to boost to 6.4-6.5Ghz out the box on 1 to 2 cores at the same sort of voltage / power usage we have now i would imagine. will be interesting to see how much they can squeeze out of it

 

[Dave2150]

A good KS chip will do upto 6.4Ghz on 1 to 2 cores or at least 6.3GHz so with this new dlvr feature it should allow the refresh to boost to 6.4-6.5Ghz out the box on 1 to 2 cores at the same sort of voltage / power usage we have now i would imagine. will be interesting to see how much they can squeeze out of it

13900KS can't even do 6Ghz single core in all applications or for more than a very short burst, at stock TDP. If you overclock, bump loads more power and have custom watercooling, then you can get sustained 6Ghz clocks.

 

[Jay-G25]

13900KS can't even do 6Ghz single core in all applications or for more than a very short burst, at stock TDP. If you overclock, bump loads more power and have custom watercooling, then you can get sustained 6Ghz clocks.

The 6.4/5Ghz i am referring to would be as you say a 1 sec short burst but will do it non the less so is not impossible for the silicone to reach those clocks ... yes will take quite a bit of voltage but then that is where the dlvr feature will come into play to help it achieve those sorts of clocks under light loads. All core it wont be doing those sorts of clocks at all but imagine a 6ghz all core for most should be doable ..

KS with 2 cores at 6.4Ghz , we can assume the refresh will at minimum be like highly binned ks chips

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[Deleted User 456458]

13900KS can't even do 6Ghz single core in all applications or for more than a very short burst, at stock TDP. If you overclock, bump loads more power and have custom watercooling, then you can get sustained 6Ghz clocks.

Wrong as usual.

 

[Bencher]

What you just wrote makes little sense. All the fully multi-threaded programs I use (not benchmarks) use more (CPU) power than any game I've played.

It comes over as if you've made two contradictory statements and are now trying to save face with some contrived nonsensical explanation.

I don't think I said something that is hard to understand. Of course fully multithreaded programs use more cpu power than games. That's also true for the 12900k. The difference is, the 13900k hits 40-50% higher score - even at similar wattages. CBR23 @ 125w the 12900k gets 23.5k,, the 13900k I tested got 33.5k.

That is not the case in games. At higher resolutions they both get the same framerate, but teh 13900k consumes much more power. In lower resolutions the 13900k is faster, but by up to 15%, while consuming almost double the power.

There is no game that the 13900k at same wattage will be 40-50% faster, while that basically happens in every single multithreaded workload.

 

[Bencher]

13900KS can't even do 6Ghz single core in all applications or for more than a very short burst, at stock TDP. If you overclock, bump loads more power and have custom watercooling, then you can get sustained 6Ghz clocks.

How can that be? Why would the TDP be the restriction here? A single core workload won't consume more than 50-60-70w maybe. I don't think TDP is an issue.

 

[Dave2150]

How can that be? Why would the TDP be the restriction here? A single core workload won't consume more than 50-60-70w maybe. I don't think TDP is an issue.

Several restrictions, though the important thing to note is that a 13900k can't sustain 5.8Ghz single core clock rate in all applications at stock - it will downclock. Same for the 13900KS, it can't sustain 6Ghz single core in realistic workloads, without downclocking.

 

[eddiew]

If the rumours are to be believed then yep 14th gen will still be on LGA1700 and will be a drop in replacement

Late reply, but this would be very interesting if true. Any source on said rumours?

With the AMD EXPO vs warranty debacle I could be tempted to get a cheap Intel for a year if there's a drop-in upgrade later on. Intel actually bothering to have platform longevity would be fantastic for those who don't like to do a full rebuild too often!

 

[Bencher]

Several restrictions, though the important thing to note is that a 13900k can't sustain 5.8Ghz single core clock rate in all applications at stock - it will downclock. Same for the 13900KS, it can't sustain 6Ghz single core in realistic workloads, without downclocking.

I think your issue is you have other stuff on the background pegging more than 1 core,therefore the boost drops. Otherwise there should be no issue for the 900k to sustain 5.8 indefinitely. I've managed 5.6 on a 12900k

 

[Jay-G25]

Late reply, but this would be very interesting if true. Any source on said rumours?

With the AMD EXPO vs warranty debacle I could be tempted to get a cheap Intel for a year if there's a drop-in upgrade later on. Intel actually bothering to have platform longevity would be fantastic for those who don't like to do a full rebuild too often!

MLD is stating with very high confidence that 14th gen will be released on LGA1700 as can be seen in the video below , there are various articles online that state the same thing : https://videocardz.com/newz/upcomin...uld-still-be-part-of-the-13th-gen-core-series and also intel's leaked roadmap saying its still using Z790 chipset so will assume no new MB this year either . Going forward i hope they stick to at least 3 CPU before having to swap out a MB , 2 is ridiculous considering how much some of the MB cost now

 

[eddiew]

MLD is stating with very high confidence that 14th gen will be released on LGA1700 as can be seen in the video below , there are various articles online that state the same thing : https://videocardz.com/newz/upcomin...uld-still-be-part-of-the-13th-gen-core-series and also intel's leaked roadmap saying its still using Z790 chipset so will assume no new MB this year either . Going forward i hope they stick to at least 3 CPU before having to swap out a MB , 2 is ridiculous considering how much some of the MB cost now

Interesting... it would be nice to have Intel confirm it though

But yes, aiming for 3 generations per board instead of 2 would be very nice. Two isn't usually enough to be worth the effort, so people end up upgrading cpu+motherboard+memory every 2nd gen, and it's annoying. I really like the upgrade path that AM4 had and AM5 is promising, but I am definitely wary of the warranty vs EXPO shenanigans that are going on. I have 2x32 6000c30 on my desk, waiting to go into a system. I know full well that Ryzen 7000 runs significantly worse at default memory speeds and latencies. I do not intend to void the warranty on a £400 motherboard + £400 cpu combo.

Now if it all blows over in a week or so and it turns into "of COURSE we warranty parts used with EXPO" then fine, ok, good. I do really like the X3D line and I am very impressed by the power efficiency. The CPUs themselves are fantastic, I want one. But I don't want to have to gimp it or risk nearly a grand worth of hardware in order to get its reviewed speeds.

 

[Dave2150]

Interesting... it would be nice to have Intel confirm it though

But yes, aiming for 3 generations per board instead of 2 would be very nice. Two isn't usually enough to be worth the effort, so people end up upgrading cpu+motherboard+memory every 2nd gen, and it's annoying. I really like the upgrade path that AM4 had and AM5 is promising, but I am definitely wary of the warranty vs EXPO shenanigans that are going on. I have 2x32 6000c30 on my desk, waiting to go into a system. I know full well that Ryzen 7000 runs significantly worse at default memory speeds and latencies. I do not intend to void the warranty on a £400 motherboard + £400 cpu combo.

Now if it all blows over in a week or so and it turns into "of COURSE we warranty parts used with EXPO" then fine, ok, good. I do really like the X3D line and I am very impressed by the power efficiency. The CPUs themselves are fantastic, I want one. But I don't want to have to gimp it or risk nearly a grand worth of hardware in order to get its reviewed speeds.

I wouldn't count Raptor Lake refresh as a "new generation". If it just ends up being a 13900KS + 200Mhz, then it's just another binned chip, no IPC increase, no additional cores etc.

 

[uscool]

Interesting... it would be nice to have Intel confirm it though

But yes, aiming for 3 generations per board instead of 2 would be very nice. Two isn't usually enough to be worth the effort, so people end up upgrading cpu+motherboard+memory every 2nd gen, and it's annoying. I really like the upgrade path that AM4 had and AM5 is promising, but I am definitely wary of the warranty vs EXPO shenanigans that are going on. I have 2x32 6000c30 on my desk, waiting to go into a system. I know full well that Ryzen 7000 runs significantly worse at default memory speeds and latencies. I do not intend to void the warranty on a £400 motherboard + £400 cpu combo.

Now if it all blows over in a week or so and it turns into "of COURSE we warranty parts used with EXPO" then fine, ok, good. I do really like the X3D line and I am very impressed by the power efficiency. The CPUs themselves are fantastic, I want one. But I don't want to have to gimp it or risk nearly a grand worth of hardware in order to get its reviewed speeds.

In that case you probably won't be using the ram at that speed It's been like that for years
its the same with intel using xmp it voids warrantyl also AM4 official support is upto 3200

Thought this was always the case you just don't tell them if you need to claim warranty I thought the worst is it just crashes or not being stable

AMD and Intel want YOU to LIE to them

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youtu.be

Asus have released the following

ASUS BIOS updates and warranty coverage for ASUS AM5 platform motherboards with Ryzen™ 7000 series processors | News｜ASUS USA

We want to address the concerns that have been raised by our users about whether recent BIOS updates will impact the warranty of ASUS AM5 motherboards. We would like to reassure

www.asus.com

 

[Dave2150]

Meteor Lake could be Intel's chance to catch up to AMD in integrated graphics​

Source: https://www.xda-developers.com/meteor-lake-intel-catch-up-amd-integrated-graphics/

Intel has already confirmed that it will make at least two different GPUs for its Meteor Lake chips using TSMC's 5nm node, which is on par with AMD's RX 7000 series. A standalone GPU tile allows Intel to maximize performance if it so desires since integrated graphics on a monolithic CPU (which means no chiplets or tiles) have to be limited in size in order to be practical. Because AMD prefers to just make one consumer APU rather than multiple ones with different iGPUs, it might be leaving performance on the table. Intel would have no such problem with this tile-based approach.

Interesting. With so many rumours floating around, it's hard to know if we'll actually get Meteor Lake on desktop, or if it'll be laptop only. Sound be a great chip efficiency wise for mobile, though still curious to see how well Intel will execute for their first mainstream tile/chiplet approach.

 

[Dave2150]

Intel Meteor Lake 16-Core, 14-Core CPUs Surface In New Benchmarks​

Three different cores inside one CPU
Source: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-meteor-lake-16-core-14-core-cpus-surface-in-new-benchmarks

Intel continues to go down the hybrid path with Meteor Lake. Meteor Lake, which features a multi-tile design, will employ Redwood Cove performance cores (P-cores) to handle heavy workloads while saving the Cresmont efficient cores (E-cores) for simpler tasks. The design allows for maximizing performance without sacrificing power consumption. However, Meteor Lake may feature a third type of core, presently rumored as the LP E-cores (low-power efficient cores). The rumor appears to be legit since an Intel patent has shown two additional Cresmont cores inside the SoC tile, which appears to feature a larger process node.

Rumours are all over the place for 14th gen, especially for desktop. This one mentions desktop parts, though the leaked benchmarks are only showing mobile parts. Whether 14th gen desktop will be Raptor Lake refresh, Meteor Lake or Arrow lake, remains to be seen.

 

[Dave2150]

All the leaks today!

Leaked Intel roadmap lists Meteor Lake-S (6P+8E) die as cancelled​

Meteor Lake-S with 6P+8E config confirmed canceled by Intel roadmap​

Source: https://videocardz.com/newz/leaked-intel-roadmap-lists-meteor-lake-s-6p8e-die-as-canceled

The canceled MTL-S part was not the only SKU discussed earlier. There were also rumors that Intel might be preparing a 6P and 16E core, which would be offered alongside Arrow Lake-S with 8P+16E configuration. The next-gen Core series may not feature more cores than Raptor Lake, but the core design will be updated for what is called Lion Cove and Skymont hybrid architecture.