Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Orangeade said:
Really? You will say the same **** for all methods employed?



War or conflict? What difference does it make? It's people killing people.



Russia are morally bankrupt a$$holes that we shouldn't try and emulate. Just because bad people do things doesn't mean we should follow suit.
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Here's a hypothetical scenario for you,

A known murderer is about to enter your house and a gun just so happens to pop into existence nearby, are you going to risk death questioning the moral quandary of using an illegal firearm to find an equally questionable knife to defend yourself? The fact is that when the very existence of your identity is threatened the luxuries of peace are long gone.
 
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Orangeade said:
Your argument essentially is "cluster munitions are bad".........but ethical considerations play second fiddle to Ukraine winning. I would argue that wrong is wrong.
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No - I'm saying if our ethical considerations were so deep we should be doing more, which we can do, so that Ukraine doesn't have to resort to using stuff like cluster munitions. To criticise them under those circumstances would be grotesque.
 
StriderX said:
Here's a hypothetical scenario for you,

A known murderer is about to enter your house and a gun just so happens to pop into existence nearby, are you going to risk death questioning the moral quandary of using an illegal firearm to find an equally questionable knife to defend yourself? I bet that if Ukraine put it to a vote... they'd overwhelmingly opt to use these weapons even if there's a chance they might be killed by it some currently impossible to imagine day in the future.
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In our situation it would be more like seeing someone's house about to be invaded by people obviously intent on killing them and instead of phoning the police just watching it play out, then criticising the homeowner for using a knife or firearm "illegally" to defend themselves.
 
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Rroff said:
Much slower than I'd have thought but Russia is making steady progress in mobilising industry, etc. for war. One of my biggest fears we'd let Russia grow into this war as they have less and less to lose by staying on a war footing.
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We are not letting Russia do anything :confused:

This is all on them.
 
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It would balance things out a bit if Ukraine could field the same type of attack drones that Russia has with the Shaheds.

They seem to have made some progress with their own versions but the numbers of flights they've had is fairly low compared to the number they receive.
 
Rroff said:
No - I'm saying if our ethical considerations were so deep we should be doing more, which we can do, so that Ukraine doesn't have to resort to using stuff like cluster munitions. To criticise them under those circumstances would be grotesque.
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100bn and counting doesn't count? And could you answer the below question? CaptainRave (fitting name) already did.


Orangeade said:
So the plucky fighters should use chemical and biological if they want? Nuclear if they could get hands on it?
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StriderX said:
Here's a hypothetical scenario for you,

A known murderer is about to enter your house and a gun just so happens to pop into existence nearby, are you going to risk death questioning the moral quandary of using an illegal firearm to find an equally questionable knife to defend yourself? The fact is that when the very existence of your identity is threatened the luxuries of peace are long gone.
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***Keep it civil*** Could you at least come up with a scenario that makes sense?

Rroff said:
In our situation it would be more like seeing someone's house about to be invaded by people obviously intent on killing them and instead of phoning the police just watching it play out, then criticising the homeowner for using a knife or firearm "illegally" to defend themselves.
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This also makes zero sense on multiple counts. we haven't just watched it play out, we've collectively given a fortune as well as our moral support to Ukraine. And a knife or firearm is not analogous to cluster munitions.
 
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Jono8 said:
We are not letting Russia do anything :confused:

This is all on them.
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There was a lot of hesitancy early in the war when there was a chance to maybe pushing Russia back, we are still mostly rinsing out old inventory, etc. when Ukraine is crying out for things like AS-90s in numbers, increased artillery production, etc.

That isn't to say we've not been doing anything at all and we've (as in the UK) lead the charge on a number of aspects and/or pushed innovation into play to plug gaps.
 
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Orangeade said:
100bn and counting doesn't count? And could you answer the below question? CaptainRave (fitting name) already did.







Are you dimwitted? Could you at least come up with a scenario that makes sense?



This also makes zero sense on multiple counts. we haven't just watched it play out, we've collectively given a fortune as well as our moral support to Ukraine. And a knife or firearm is not analogous to cluster munitions.
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When it comes to the capabilities which would aid Ukraine in not having to resort to cluster munitions such as being able to have the edge over the weight of Russian artillery by utilising sophistication i.e. more ready supply of stuff like the AS-90 and AHS-Krab, ramping up production of regular artillery munitions to sufficient numbers for the job which needs to be done, etc. we've relatively done very little. (And those are just example).
 
Orangeade said:
Did I say it was at any stage? Or are you just frothing like a lunatic?
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I’m pointing out the Russians are already using chemical weapons on all Ukrainians, targeting combatants and civilians alike.

I wouldn’t hold it against the Ukrainians for replying in kind TBH.
 
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Rroff said:
In our situation it would be more like seeing someone's house about to be invaded by people obviously intent on killing them and instead of phoning the police just watching it play out, then criticising the homeowner for using a knife or firearm "illegally" to defend themselves.
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It’s clearer and grimmer than that. They’ve already gone in and killed someone. :(
 
Washout said:
It’s clearer and grimmer than that. They’ve already gone in and killed someone. :(
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It's more like intruders have broken into the house, raped and murdered the children, been found by the father who has then beat them to death while orangeade stands outside tutting and asking if he could have not simply restrained them, probably worried about the local house prices.
 
Washout said:
It’s clearer and grimmer than that. They’ve already gone in and killed someone. :(
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What I'm saying is relative to the use of cluster munitions, we could have done more so that Ukraine didn't have a need case to use them.

So it would be a bit grotesque to criticise, but that doesn't mean we have to be fine with them using them.
 
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