COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

Lean said:
Have you an opinion on the questions I asked? What do you think of young people been coerced into a vaccination they didnt need and government pushing vaccinations for children.
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Do you have evidence they didn't need it?

COVID is worse than the vaccine in pretty much all metrics. Plenty of young healthy people died or suffered permanent life changing conditions due to COVID. And yes, vaccinations did help protect others through reducing transmission, and other means.

It's like you've not actually read and understood any of the actual evidence that's been posted here. Not necessarily surprising, most people wouldn't be able to, but to simply pretend it doesn't exist is not a valid argument.
 
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Lean said:
"the science" changed weekly during covid because they were guessing at every turn or social media post.

We'll leave it there tbh. Answering questions with questions is painful.

Good night
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You can leave it where you like. We've had years of the science now, with plenty of evidence and research.

The vaccine, like any vaccine, can cause adverse reactions. The disease is worse.

Transmission was reduced, both in terms of viral load at least earlier on, and in terms of infectious period. In addition, shorter infected times would lead to less time for mutations to occur.

The science was changing early on because it was new, with new information and new mutations coming in. That's what science does, it's the strength of science, not weakness.
 
The science adapted to the ever-changing and evolving virus, but the basic principles always remained the same with regard to the vaccine you're complaining about. When it first came out, it halted transmission almost entirely because the vaccine matched the circulating strain near perfectly. The virus evolved, evaded the vaccine, and continued to spread rapidly.

However, as Unseul has said, transmission was still reduced due to people having immune systems that could fight off the virus within days instead of laying them off for weeks. This greatly reduces the impact of the virus on a population leveol.
 
Unseul said:
the science
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Tephnos said:
The science
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Yes "the science" :)

Your posts are well written sure, but you quote "the science"
Lean said:
Have you an opinion on the questions I asked? What do you think of young people been coerced into a vaccination they didnt need and government pushing vaccinations for children.
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Same for people who click on links with a guy telling them they can make money trading after they sign up and complete their paid course.
 
platinum87 said:
Yes "the science" :)

Your posts are well written sure, but you quote "the science"


Same for people who click on links with a guy telling them they can make money trading after they sign up and complete their paid course.
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Sorry, I'm unsure with the issue of quoting scientific research? Is it not better than quoting people who've simply pulled stuff from some orifice or another? Or worse, try and pretend that some official body made a claim, then refuse to back it up when asked to.

Science can get it wrong, but unless you think there's some sort of international conspiracy, where scientists from many backgrounds are all working together, and faking the data of millions of subjects, then the science here is fairly cut and dry for the most part.
 
Unseul said:
Sorry, I'm unsure with the issue of quoting scientific research? Is it not better than quoting people who've simply pulled stuff from some orifice or another? Or worse, try and pretend that some official body made a claim, then refuse to back it up when asked to.

Science can get it wrong, but unless you think there's some sort of international conspiracy, where scientists from many backgrounds are all working together, and faking the data of millions of subjects, then the science here is fairly cut and dry for the most part.
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“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it”.
 
Lean said:
I'm struggling to get my head around how you guys who think you know about vaccines blow off anyone who has got life experience of the many adverse reaction people a living with.
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Because anecdotal evidence is among the weakest types of evidence. Peoples anecdotal evidence is not being blow off, it's being acknowledge and superseded by more robust evidence.
Lean said:
Have you an opinion on the questions I asked? What do you think of young people been coerced into a vaccination they didnt need and government pushing vaccinations for children.
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Depends on whether you're referring to children and/or young people who are over or under the age of consent, if they're under then that's on their guardian, if they're over then that's on them.
 
platinum87 said:
Yes "the science" :)

Your posts are well written sure, but you quote "the science"


Same for people who click on links with a guy telling them they can make money trading after they sign up and complete their paid course.
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To be fair the science is fast moving which is why there's more evidence on the effectiveness of the vaccine just as there's more evidence about the impact of it. Similarly there's more research on the long term impacts of not vaccinating just as there is more research on things beyond the vaccine such as societal impacts and bigger picture research.

I feel we're at the stage now where the vaccine research of this particular style of vaccine is now at the stage where the medicine is being refined and improved constantly.

That said a lot of damage in trust has been done owing to the way it was rolled out, but that's human society, and politics for you!

Wholly dismissing the science or the fact they aren't still.ploughing research efforts into it is a little silly but being critical or inquisitive about it is perfectly acceptable. I don't want to go down the whole route of big pharma etc... which is another debate in itself.
 
Lean said:
I'm struggling to get my head around how you guys who think you know about vaccines blow off anyone who has got life experience of the many adverse reaction people a living with
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There isn't one pro vaxxer who knows the science who will deny some people have had adverse reactions to it so that's unfair.
However the people 'saved' by the vaccine v those with adverse reaction isn't even close.
If I take my own personal data - I work within two big hospital buildings with easily 300 staff and don't know any of them who have had an adverse reaction more than a sore arm.
I have over 1000 facebook friends where most of them posted they had had their vaxx and I haven't seen any of them come back saying they're not having another.
I move within the music ccommunity and again nobody has come back and said they have been harmed.
However because of my job I know of several staff who have been harmed and refuse to have another jab.
Also the woman next door to my In Laws had her 3rd jab and immediately had an ambulance called to her and she hasn't been right since.
There are millions upon millions of people saved by Polio jabs but we only hear of the few who died from them, same with measles etc.

Lean said:
How do you feel about our government recommending children been offered a "vaccination" that had no benefit for them or saving their grandma's.
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Lean said:
Him getting vaccinated wasnt saving anyone from catching covid, not his nana, your mother or anyone else.
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Weirdly only up to a couple of days ago I thought exactly the same and if you look in the thread further above I actually said it.
It's quite embarrassing that I'm still working with Covid patients, relatives and staff in a smaller capacity and I was spouting this nonsense (not to them though).
One poster explained it fully how the vaccination works and how transmission massively dropped because of them.
Having a bit of a brain I can see exactly how that worked and I won't ever say that vaccinations didn't stop you catching it or spreading it.

Lean said:
My 19 year old son was coerced into getting "vaccinated" by his uni. He know has rheumatoid arthritis in multiple joints at 22.
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Have you got undeniable concrete proof that the vaxx did this to your Son or are you adding 2 + 2?
Did he have the jab and six months develop arthritis or did it happen immediately?
Way before Covid I had a friend who had a Son who just developed arthritis etc and his mobility is very poor.
 
I've noticed having allergic reactions seems to be prevalent in both covid itself and the vaccine.

My neighbour had a similar reaction to the Pfizer vaccine.

But I got an allergic reaction from covid itself with eczema on my leg.

My personal belief, based off my own observations, living with long covid for over 2 years, and reading about the subject, is that the vaccine was that good at mimicking the virus that the body is treating it as a real infection.

The good news is that because the vaccine is causing these symptoms it will help in the development of better vaccines and to create better medications, or a future vaccine, that will purposely look to clear the virus.

Medications are being trialed now for this purpose.

I'm pretty sure when the virus is fully cleared from the body many of the lingering symptoms will also disappear.
 
GGizmo said:
My personal belief, based off my own observations, living with long covid for over 2 years, and reading about the subject, is that the vaccine was that good at mimicking the virus that the body is treating it as a real infection.
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Not an expert but isn't that what old vaccines did like Cowpox and Malaria?
Give a little bit of the disease/virus and the body is able to protect itself.
I thought we'd gone way past that type of vaccine?
 
SexyGreyFox said:
Have you got undeniable concrete proof that the vaxx did this to your Son or are you adding 2 + 2?
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Ah you obviously didn't get the memo

When you had the COVID vaccine you were immediately and for the future prevented from getting any other medical issue.

Literally no other medical issue could arise, if it did it was due to the vaccine.
GGizmo said:
is that the vaccine was that good at mimicking the virus that the body is treating it as a real infection.
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Thats pretty much the point in vaccines. Trick the body into believing it has the illness, its self defence mechanisms kick in, the body builds the antibodies and knowledge of how to fight the disease.
Giving the body a very small dose of generally inert strains.
 
SexyGreyFox said:
Likewise :)
Not even Simon would think that :)
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Can you stop talking about me please. It’s getting almost obsessive and you bring my name into every other post based on a few sentences I wrote. You know jack about me so don’t act like you know me


Who calls themself ‘sexy’ anyway.
 
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I think some posters, especially in recent days, have forgotten about how dire things were in the UK and around the world from around March '20, until the vaccines began to officially roll out around December '20.

The UK daily death numbers due to covid were horrifying. Thousands, day after, absolutely relentless. Especially when new variants hit our shores.

Without looking up the numbers, UK daily deaths were especially high among those aged 80+, but they didn't tail off dramatically until you looked at those under aged approx 30... But even then, the death rate in the under 30s was raised in that ~8 month spell.

And that's just looking at deaths, ignoring those whose lives were changed dramatically for the worse, due to how badly covid ravaged their body.

Yes, some poor souls had bad reactions to the vaccines, but for the world population vaccines were most definitely the greater good.
 
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UTmaniac said:
Without looking up the numbers, UK daily deaths were especially high among those aged 80+, but they didn't tail off dramatically until you looked at those under aged approx 30... But even then, the death rate in the under 30s was raised in that ~8 month spell.
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Without looking up the numbers I believe the numbers did in fact drop off dramatically below 80...yes there were deaths at all ages , but the old were way more at risk.
 
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