Bruce Lee vs Modern Martial Arts

AJUK · 26 Apr 2006 at 20:20

Ex-RoNiN said:
Would someone that's good in Krav Maga be able to stand up to any of these UFC guys, or to some full-blown martial artist?

That's different, Krav Magna is designed to disable your opponent as quickly as possible, it isn't a sport. In a street fight, the KM exponent would get my money but in the ring, UFC anyday.

The same applies to very good traditional marial artists. For instance, some of the karateka I have trained with in the past could block, punch to the throat and break one of those UFC fighters knees before they have engaged their kicking leg; but that's not sport that is real karate.

Amp34 · 26 Apr 2006 at 20:35

mctrials23 said:
oh yeah i wasnt saying that thai boxers arnt good. Most of the best MMA fighters are BJJ/ thai boxing. I was saying that most of the native thai boxers from thailand are not too big.

I realised that i was just saying why i chose to say thai boxers

. I suppose its a bit like boxing, only the heavyweight bouts are ever really shown. There may be lots of asians in the smaller weights but not the main shown ones as they arent big enough.

I'm sorry, do you realise how stupid that sounds? You're saying that someone can deliver a kick to the head so fast that your eye doesn't register it. Mmm.

Threads like these are hilarious. You get people coming out saying Bruce Lee could catch bullets with his eyelids and bench press battleships. The whole Lee legend isn't exactly 100% accurate.

I am not comming from a OMFGBRUCELEEEISSOBRILLIANT!!!! attitude I am just commenting on what i have seen, admittedly you can just about see the legs moving but it is one hell of a lot quicker movement than the UFC fighters and litrally if your not concentrating you'll miss the movement and just see a person falling to the floor. Ill have to see if i can dig up a clip from a fight between the thai champion and the british champion a couple of years ago as its a great watch.

I have a keen interest in martial arts but I don't really like the MMA stuff that much, I find it crude, it lacks the poetry of more traditional forms and certainly lacks the mental and spiritual side of the arts.

The same here, my family are very into karate and after almost a whole life of that (although i dont do karate myself) watching MMA and UFC type stuff is just like violence for fun and to show (a bit like wrestling).

panthro · 26 Apr 2006 at 22:09

Amp34 said:
I didnt mean slow in as much as the same speed as us but in comparison to a proper kickboxer or martial artist they are SLOW, you carry that much bulk around and you will be slower. Watch a few professional kickboxers ( ie thai's not english) and martial artists and you will see what i mean, when you dont even see the leg hit someones head you can call it fast.

The reason people that i have said about dont go into UFC and MMA is because they excel in their particular sport and dont want to get into a more pumped up and showy sport (thats not an insult it just shows the difference in culture, go watch a karate kumate and you'll see the difference, a lot less show and pomp.) I have to admit though if these people went straight into the ring and fought under the rules they would be beaten as panthro said because they wouldnt have the right stratergy.

Its all relative to size and weight. The are plenty of UFC fighters who are carrying <7% body fat and are quick. Example - Pedro Rizzo. He is probably THE best striker in the world, an ex UFC champion and is versed in Ruas Vales Tudo which combines kick boxing with submission and muay thai. He could probably outstrike any kickboxer you put him up against.

Just because Thailand invented Muay Thai (this can also be argued, but thats another story) it doesnt mean they are the best in the world.

ElvisFan · 26 Apr 2006 at 23:09

I would love to see what Jet Li is TRULY capable of. Granted, I've only seen him in bits of movies on the telly (my mother loves him) but he moves fantastically.

panthro · 26 Apr 2006 at 23:19

ElvisFan said:
I would love to see what Jet Li is TRULY capable of. Granted, I've only seen him in bits of movies on the telly (my mother loves him) but he moves fantastically.

You should check out Some of his earlier HK wuxia films. If you can find them, check out The Shaolin Temple 1 2 & 3. That film will make you realise why China made him a national treasure. Also check out the Once Upon a Time in China Trilogy, The Legend (of Fong Sai Yuk) 1 & 2 and my personal favourite, Fist of Legend.

Ex-RoNiN · 26 Apr 2006 at 23:48

AJUK said:
That's different, Krav Magna is designed to disable your opponent as quickly as possible, it isn't a sport. In a street fight, the KM exponent would get my money but in the ring, UFC anyday.

The same applies to very good traditional marial artists. For instance, some of the karateka I have trained with in the past could block, punch to the throat and break one of those UFC fighters knees before they have engaged their kicking leg; but that's not sport that is real karate.

So you're saying, under tournament conditions the Krav Maga guy would get whooped, but on the street the Krav Maga guy would whoop any martial artist?

willd58 · 27 Apr 2006 at 00:18

Bruce lee would have his ass handed to him pretty quickly imo, and im a big fan of the guy. Im just also a big fan of MMA (allthough i dont know a lot about it tbh), and iv seen what these martial artists fight like, its a completely different sport to what there used to.

One of the best threads ever on here was Bruce Lee Vs mike tyson, both in there prime, debate. I was all for Bruce then, and thought a lot of people who opted for tyson were a tad stupid.

Vonhelmet · 27 Apr 2006 at 13:09

Ex-RoNiN said:
So you're saying, under tournament conditions the Krav Maga guy would get whooped, but on the street the Krav Maga guy would whoop any martial artist?

It's not that ludicrous a statement, given that Krav Maga is based entirely around the premise of disabling someone as fast as possible by any means possible i.e. groin strikes, eyes, etc, which are barred in most UFC/MMA rules.

thebrasso · 27 Apr 2006 at 13:39

As with anything a lot of it is pure speculation. Personally, good as Bruce Lee was I think that if he went into a cage fight, no fannying around, he could get badly hurt by a decent UFC fighter.

Notice how I said could.

Then again Bruce Lee could probably think **** this and just smash their kneecap or worse. Game over very quickly.

Stringy · 27 Apr 2006 at 13:41

thebrasso said:
As with anything a lot of it is pure speculation. Personally, good as Bruce Lee was I think that if he went into a cage fight, no fannying around, he could get badly hurt by a decent UFC fighter.

Notice how I said could.

Then again Bruce Lee could probably think **** this and just smash their kneecap or worse. Game over very quickly.

Lee being clever like he is, should just jump out of the cage, and using his legendary speed, run away

The_KiD · 27 Apr 2006 at 13:46

Aparently Pride would beat Bruce Lee

but UFC wouldnt

Trojan · 27 Apr 2006 at 13:48

FishFluff said:
MMA fights have rules, if you want to win you need to learn to fight using those rules.

and put the practice in of course

OT - When are you getting your ass back down to Chuldow, you missed the last grading and you're going to miss the upcoming tournament at this rate!

Sutters · 27 Apr 2006 at 14:30

Violent-J said:
As for the theoretical Bruce Lee vs. I have nothing to say on that, I can't believe people have responded to such BS and im loling at 90% of the posts from people who no nothing about fighting.

100% agreed.
Honestly I don't think a prime Lee would have much of a chance against even the most average modern day mma fighter.

Props to Lee for being one of the pioneers though.

edit: If he was alive, young and training with modern crosstraining techniques i'm sure he'd have a great shot in the lower weight categories, he had natural talent and a great work ethic.

Vonhelmet · 27 Apr 2006 at 14:37

If we somehow resurrected him and put him in the ring with them, he'd get caned.

If he was at his prime in this day and age it's fair to say he'd probably be keeping an eye on MMA, as it was pretty much his game to begin with, so he may actually stand a pretty good chance.

PikeyPriest · 27 Apr 2006 at 14:46

Anyone want to see some MMA do searches on google video for:

cro cop
fedor
chuck liddell

There is the entire fight of cro cop vs. fedor on there and its pretty intense. (commentary is japanese?? though, but you dont really have to understand what they are saying)

Shoseki · 27 Apr 2006 at 15:16

ok, I just watched some MMA "highlights" by video google searching for chuck liddel.

Sure, they look violent, but they don't look technically very complex. When I think of the enormous array of things a fighter can do, most of those fighters simply concentrate on being very very strong and tough, and doing lots of punches / kicks / put downs / grappling. Almost like me and my brother fight when we fight craply.

There doesn't seem to be ten tons of very technical fighting, enormous use of footwork etc... almost like some kind of insects fighting. One of them simply out damages and outlasts the other.

I'd imagined top level fighting to be more technical... this looks like two armies guys kickboxing each other. Good for 1vs1 I guess...

mctrials23 · 27 Apr 2006 at 15:30

i think that the idea that all the MMA people dont use a wide array of techniques etc can be linked back to bruce lees JKD, he said that a lot of traditional martial arts were overly complex and told you to do this then this etc etc when the easiest thing to do is the most effective.

eg a guy starts to choke you some arts would have you grab his arm then twist ......; lee said the easiest thing would just be to punch the guy. Trying to use flowery pretty forms and tecniques in the ring is stupid as any weakness will be moved on and you dont want to let any of the top UFC get a free shot in.

Shoseki · 27 Apr 2006 at 15:32

The strange thing is though the that straight punch has always been (as far as I understand) quite a weak punch, but it is almost exclusively relied upon by pugilistic martial arts because of its speed.

mctrials23 · 27 Apr 2006 at 15:37

I think most of punching is speed and technique and then power. You can hurt yourself if your not punching properly. Also at the top levels if you use other punches that take longer to land then the opponent will have hit you first or will block your strike.

Curio · 27 Apr 2006 at 17:28

Hehe - pure size and power v skill:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3161492157431307356&q=ZULU&pl=true