Streatham shooting: Man 'shot dead in the street' as police declare terror-related incident

[Hades]

I lived a few miles from Harrow for 6 years. We moved out in 2003 when we could see what was happening to it. It's a cesspit now. When I would take my kids back to stay with their grandmother during summer holidays there they said they hated the area too. It's a shame because it used to be a nice area.

 

[Roar87]

Bit different calling a man a man on twitter rather than wanting to blow up innocent people

Free speech means you can say most things, but threats of violence, telling or encouraging other people to commit violent acts, plotting violent acts and/or possessing material which encourage or discuss methods of hurting or killing people simply isn't covered. Vincent thinks I apply different standards based on the colour of the persons skin because he hasn't even taken the time to understand the absolute basics of how free speech is applied, yet he also thinks he's an educated intelligent individual.

 

[stockhausen]

I lived a few miles from Harrow for 6 years. We moved out in 2003 when we could see what was happening to it. It's a cesspit now. . . .

Yeah, Eton is the place to go!

 

[Hotwired]

It's like you need spoon feeding. The whole point is that he was jailed for a minor terror attack. Not a minor offence as you first tried to assert. See, semantics are important.

By providing a longer initial sentence you increase the chance of reformation, in this case the removal of said terrorist ideologies, as they can engage in meaningful programmes of a useful duration. All the while the public are kept safe from a potentially dangerous individual.

Was he really. I don't think you could type the word pedantry without cocking it up. This semantic diversion was not worth it from any level especially your personal one.

Meanwhile I rather think I gave a reply which presents my view on the meaningful matter earlier. Need to quote another post for context though.

Yes, its called a deterrent. Hit people hard for the crimes they do commit and it's proven to reduce reoffending. Short sentences are useless. Longer ones allow better rehabilitation.

The difference is you are advocating 4x the served jail sentence here with no changes in the facts available at the time of sentencing.

In fact by your standards we should max out everyones jail sentence if it was terror related and scrap the early release option and it's totally not a knee jerk retrospective view of specific individuals committing crime later.

Which just happens to mean a guaranteed multiplication of the cost to the government but no guarantee that this guy will drop his private thoughts to die in a suicidal terror attack.

You can't magically predict crime and reoffending when it comes to suicidal terror attacks isn't really a problem. If someone values their life as less than the impact they want to make by dying then how is a couple more years in lousy living conditions a fix.

The only thing you can guarantee with arbitrary sentence increases for minor crime is pushing any real problem down the line at enormous cost and less opportunity for those who do turn a new leaf.

There is no solution to criminal intent that people are determined to conceal for the benefit of their own success as happened in this case.

You don't get your reduced sentence without selling your repentance pitch to the parole board.

Either you genuinely believe in the potential for prisoners to reform and therefore such assessments are reasonable and should happen or you're simply in favour of burying all potential reformed or unreformed persons in jail for as long as possible just to be on the safe side.

I'm not in favour of the side effects of that kind of paranoid change to the punishment.

 

[nitram100]

I lived a few miles from Harrow for 6 years. We moved out in 2003 when we could see what was happening to it. It's a cesspit now. When I would take my kids back to stay with their grandmother during summer holidays there they said they hated the area too. It's a shame because it used to be a nice area.

Yes mate, it's a ******* cesspit. I lived here for 26 years , we moved from N. Ireland because of the troubles. Literally today my mother is signing documents to exchance her council house to move to Watford. I'm so happy for her as I'm emigrating to Australia in 4 months and would hate for my mum to live here. It was a combination of social flats being put up, huge mosque built then imported 1000's of third world scum, not long after this we had our first murder on the forecourt of a petrol station outside my old school Salvatorian and now we have afghan somali drug fights. I can look out my mums window and openly see drugs and money being exchanged, it's a ******* dump but according to Khan, diversity is strength. Also my neighbors back window of his car was smashed by those drug dealers last night, a 70 yr old man looking after his wife who had a stroke. I wish I could nuke harrow. You moved out at the perfect time man at 2003, we look back at 2002-2003 as a dream compared to now.

 

[CircleFaust]

Let a guy out who is a known risk, a high enough risk that they put armed police on him ...... seems like a sensible course of action.

Ah well, one less scumbag I suppose.

it's a shame but i have to agree

 

[stockhausen]

Let a guy out who is a known risk, a high enough risk that they put armed police on him ...... seems like a sensible course of action. . . .

Do you think it is just, maybe, perhaps, conceivably possible that the Police hoped to learn something useful about his contacts / associates

Whatever, some of the absolute nonsense spouted by the usual suspects here beggars belief

 

[Skunkworks]

Streatham attack the latest in growing list of terror incidents in UK

9 January 2020
Two inmates wearing fake suicide vests and armed with improvised blades are accused of attacking an officer at HMP Whitemoor.
Convicted terrorist Brusthom Ziamani, 24, has been named as one of the men allegedly involved. The second man is said to be a Muslim convert jailed for a violent offence.

29 November 2019
Two people were stabbed to death when a convicted terrorist launched a frenzied knife attack at an event in central London.
Usman Khan killed Cambridge graduates Jack Merritt and Saskia Jones at an event on prisoner rehabilitation called Learning Together.
The incident spilled out onto nearby London Bridge as former prisoners and members of the public tried to tackle Khan using a fire extinguisher and an ornamental whale tusk.
Police shot Khan, who was wearing a fake suicide vest, dead. It emerged that he had previously been jailed in 2012 for plotting a separate terrorist attack.

15 September 2017
Ahmed Hassan’s homemade bomb partially exploded on a London Underground rush hour train at Parsons Green, injuring more than 50 people. He was sentenced to life with a minimum jail term of 34 years.

19 June 2017
A group of Muslim worshippers were hit after a van slammed into them near Finsbury Park mosque, north London, after many of them had attended evening prayers during the holy month of Ramadan. One person died. Darren Osborne was jailed for at least 43 years after being found guilty of murder and attempted murder.

3 June 2017
Eight people were killed during a car and knife attack in London Bridge terror attack in central London.
Three men drove into pedestrians on the bridge and then stabbed people in nearby Borough Market.

22 May 2017
Around 10.30pm British-born Salman Ramadan Abedi, 22, walked into the foyer of Manchester Arena as crowds streamed out of an Ariana Grande concert and detonated a device packed with shrapnel, killing 22 people, including children.

22 March 2017
Five people were killed when an Islamist extremist launched a car and knife attack in central London.
Khalid Masood drove a hired car over Westminster Bridge, near the Houses of Parliament, mounted the pavement and hit pedestrians before crashing into railings outside the Palace of Westminster.
He stabbed PC Keith Palmer, 48, to death and also killed US tourist Kurt Cochran, Romanian tourist Andreea Cristea, 31, plus Britons Aysha Frade, 44, and 75-year-old Leslie Rhodes. Masood was shot dead by police.

16 June 2016
Labour MP Jo Cox was murdered outside her constituency office in Batley, west Yorkshire.
The mother of two, 41, was shot and stabbed multiple times by rightwing extremist Thomas Mair. He was later handed a whole-life prison sentence for her murder.

5 December 2015
A lone attacker attempted to behead a passenger during an Islamic State-inspired rampage in the ticket hall of Leytonstone Underground station in east London.
Somali-born Muhiddin Mire targeted strangers at random during the attack on 5 December 2015 before slashing fellow passenger Lyle Zimmerman, 56, with a knife.
Mire, who had schizophrenia, was sent to Broadmoor hospital after being given a life sentence with a minimum term of eight years for attempted murder.

22 May 2013
Fusilier Lee Rigby murdered by Islamic extremists Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale.
The 25-year-old serviceman was walking near his barracks in Woolwich, south-east London, when the pair rammed him with a car before attempting to decapitate him.
The killers were jailed for life at the Old Bailey in February 2014.

14 May 2010
Stephen Timms, MP for West Ham, was stabbed by Roshonara Choudhry during one his constituency surgeries. She became the first British person inspired by al-Qaida to try and assassinate a prominent figure on UK soil.
She was found guilty of attempted murder and jailed for life with a minimum term of 15 years.

30 June 2007
Two men inspired by Islamist extremism rammed a 4x4 laden with petrol and propane tanks into the main terminal of Glasgow airport. One of the attackers died in the incident and five people were injured.

7 July 2005
Four suicide bombers killed 52 and injured hundreds in blasts on the London Underground network and a bus.
Twenty-six died in the bombing at Russell Square on the Piccadilly line, six in the bombing at Edgware Road on the Circle line, seven in the bombing at Aldgate on the Circle line, and 13 in the bombing on a bus at Tavistock Square.



https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...rror-incidents-in-uk/ar-BBZzDj3?ocid=msedgntp

Islam - 0 dead
Islam - 2 dead
Islam - 0 dead
Far-Right - 1 dead
Islam - 8 dead
Islam - 22 dead
Islam - 5 dead
Far-Right - 1 dead
Islam - 0 dead
Islam - 1 dead
Islam - 0 dead
Islam - 0 dead
Islam - 52 dead

5% of the population, responsible for 85% of the terror attacks and 98% of the deaths. But hey, we need to crack down on the omnipresent Far-Right!

 

[MookJong]

Yes mate, it's a ******* cesspit. I lived here for 26 years , we moved from N. Ireland because of the troubles. Literally today my mother is signing documents to exchance her council house to move to Watford. I'm so happy for her as I'm emigrating to Australia in 4 months and would hate for my mum to live here. It was a combination of social flats being put up, huge mosque built then imported 1000's of third world scum, not long after this we had our first murder on the forecourt of a petrol station outside my old school Salvatorian and now we have afghan somali drug fights. I can look out my mums window and openly see drugs and money being exchanged, it's a ******* dump but according to Khan, diversity is strength. Also my neighbors back window of his car was smashed by those drug dealers last night, a 70 yr old man looking after his wife who had a stroke. I wish I could nuke harrow. You moved out at the perfect time man at 2003, we look back at 2002-2003 as a dream compared to now.

This is so sad to hear, I'm pretty lucky that where I grew up there is a slower pace of change, although I do see it happening. It must be absolutely heartbreaking seeing a place you knew as safe and homogeneous during your childhood turn almost overnight into something representing an international airport terminal.

I've never met anyone ever who has wanted this for their town. I know there is a real backlash growing in Ireland at the moment because the same thing is also happening there.

 

[JohnLondon]

So other than having armed police on every corner, how is this ever going to be stopped?

Pffft...dunno....errrrr....errrrrrrrrrrr....stop invading the middle east in the name of resources, implementing puppet governments and removing nationalised banking systems? Might be a start, like.

 

[Dis86]

Was he really. I don't think you could type the word pedantry without cocking it up. This semantic diversion was not worth it from any level especially your personal one.

Meanwhile I rather think I gave a reply which presents my view on the meaningful matter earlier. Need to quote another post for context though.





There is no solution to criminal intent that people are determined to conceal for the benefit of their own success as happened in this case.

You don't get your reduced sentence without selling your repentance pitch to the parole board.

Either you genuinely believe in the potential for prisoners to reform and therefore such assessments are reasonable and should happen or you're simply in favour of burying all potential reformed or unreformed persons in jail for as long as possible just to be on the safe side.

I'm not in favour of the side effects of that kind of paranoid change to the punishment.

You'll notice again, Einstein, that I edited that typo before you'd replied. Infact, 20 minutes before you replied...

And you're now arguing a different point as before it was that he wasn't violent and so should have been let out. You're also wrong about selling your repentance pitch to the parole board, sentencing guidelines dictate the length of a prison sentence that is actually to be spent in prison.

So again I'll reiterate the point that you're ignoring. This individual was a proven threat - hence why he was jailed in the first place, in the same way that an arms dealer hasn't committed a violent crime it doesn't stop them being a danger. For the offences he'd committed at the time the maximum sentence allowed currently is 6 years. He served about a fifth of that. Short sentences are proven to not have an effect on re-offending and may actually be detrimental - this is accepted by the UK government who are actually in the process of abolishing the shortest jail terms (those under 6 months). Ergo the two options should be jail for a sufficient length to allow reform or no jail. Given he was a proven threat to public safety jail remained the only logical option. Therefore jail him for sufficient time to allow reform. That is not 1 and a bit years.

 

[rxodium]

I know there is a real backlash growing in Ireland at the moment because the same thing is also happening there.

The worst I'm hearing from the Republic is the local drug gangs being the worst. The recent one being that kid that was murdered and chopped into pieces with bits of him left in a relatives garden. Up here in the North it was Republicans shooting a journalist last year and a guy (I know one of the family) that was beaten to death by Loyalists in Carrickfergus just after Christmas. Immigrants or Islamic terror are pretty low on the list of problems the entire island has.

 

[Dis86]

Pffft...dunno....errrrr....errrrrrrrrrrr....stop invading the middle east in the name of resources, implementing puppet governments and removing nationalised banking systems? Might be a start, like.

Could you point to any of the victims of the attacks that have done that?

Also, last time I checked most of the perpetrators aren't from the middle east.

Also given that they often cite Syria as the reason, considering the West was in support of the Syrian people wouldn't they be better off directing their ire against the Syrian regime?

 

[Amnesia]

5% of the population, responsible for 85% of the terror attacks and 98% of the deaths. But hey, we need to crack down on the omnipresent Far-Right!

Its not 5% of the population though, you seem to be attributing isis attacks to the general muslim population.
Isis we are at war with, maybe you're at war with others too?

 

[stockhausen]

Pffft...dunno....errrrr....errrrrrrrrrrr....stop invading the Middle East in the name of resources, implementing puppet governments and removing nationalised banking systems? Might be a start, like.

Surely none of that ever happens / happened

Actually, I suspect that historically, Britain and the USA have done so much of that over many years that we have created irrational, very angry fanatics with an ingrained hatred of us. I believe that the only thing that will work is to make the perpetrators of these atrocities seen as totally beyod the pale in their own communities.

This should start with outright, unequivocal rejection by their religious and community leaders. I really can't see that locking them up (after the event) and throwing the key is ever likely to work.

Actually reversing the cuts to the Police, Prison and Probation Services (rather than just talking about it) would be a good idea as well

 

[StriderX]

Islam - 0 dead
Islam - 2 dead
Islam - 0 dead
Far-Right - 1 dead
Islam - 8 dead
Islam - 22 dead
Islam - 5 dead
Far-Right - 1 dead
Islam - 0 dead
Islam - 1 dead
Islam - 0 dead
Islam - 0 dead
Islam - 52 dead

5% of the population, responsible for 85% of the terror attacks and 98% of the deaths. But hey, we need to crack down on the omnipresent Far-Right!

Tell me, what's more likely to be an issue for us, 5% of the population or 50%? The far-right may not be a threat in your eyes, but they have a far greater potential, best to keep it in the proverbial box as much as possible, as it obviously has the ability to slowly evolve into autocratic rule pretty ******* quickly. (That sounds like a contradiction, but it is not)

That doesn't mean we ignore the disproportional violence elsewhere. Anyway the naughty man is dead now, in a few days it shall be totally forgotten about, but the push for autocracy shall continue unabated because 'muh security'.

 

[Skunkworks]

Pffft...dunno....errrrr....errrrrrrrrrrr....stop invading the middle east in the name of resources, implementing puppet governments and removing nationalised banking systems? Might be a start, like.

They're as British as Winston Churchill / We bomb their countries

^Delete as expedient

 

[Squink]

Tell me, what's more likely to be an issue for us, 5% of the population or 50%? The far-right may not be a threat in your eyes,

Are you saying that 50% of the population is far right?

 

[Efour]

Why cant both be a threat and both be dealt with?

 

[Roar87]

Pffft...dunno....errrrr....errrrrrrrrrrr....stop invading the middle east in the name of resources, implementing puppet governments and removing nationalised banking systems? Might be a start, like.

What you're saying here is that British Muslims attacking their fellow British citizens is justified on the basis that the British government has ordered attacks against Muslim majority nations in the Middle East, is that correct, like?